Canon cartridge compatibility conundrum

[canon-do]

Heads-Up:
Just tried PeterBJ's dye\pigment test.
From my MX726, both Large and Small black carts' q-tip dots don't wash off or even smear on photo paper.
Which would seem to indicate that both are dye-based?
Actually, when I look at the supplier's site again, the single mention of the word 'pigment' is in relation to a genuine Canon cart.

So, is there any downside to all 'compatible' carts being dye-based?

 

[Technician]

This whole pigment/dye thing has been a pet grievance of mine for years. You buy an ink cartridge with the letters PG in it's description so you would think like the OEM version it contains Pigment ink but no it does not, or very rarely anyway.
Different people will have their own views on whether using dye based ink in place of Pigment is a good idea but for me it's a big no no.
Although I can't be absolutely sure but I believe it was using the wrong ink type caused the demise of my previous Canon printer. Myself I would always advise sticking to what the printer manufacturers designed their machine for, because if you do decide to use Dye ink you can't chop & change, that would be lethal.

 

[canon-do]

So, what is the actual difference between DYE and PIGMENT inks?
Sorry (Admin, long-suffering, long-time members) - I'm sure this question has been asked before, but this dye\pigment distinction is new to me. Why should I care about the difference between the two types?

 

[The Hat]

So, what is the actual difference between DYE and PIGMENT inks?

You can refill your OEM cartridge safely with dye ink, and your printer will work away as normal and never cause a bit of harm, and with fewer clogs, but there are a few differences in the printouts.

Your text image will be slightly thicker and will not be highlighter proof, also the printout, say on an envelope for instance will not be water proof, the text will run...

You may later switch back to pigment ink if necessity requires, but you must flush the dye ink out of the cartridge first, before refilling with your pigment ink again, and that’s it, so the choice is yours, and many a member have been using dye ink in their pigment carts for years, some unknowingly...

The very best 3rd party pigment ink available is KMP pigment ink, for use only in small desktop printers, I have found none better...

 

[Technician]

I'd echo what "The Hat" has written. It's always worth remembering though when you buy a new printer and lift it out of it's nice red and white box, you'll find enclosed a set of brand new unopened ink cartridges. Nothing will print better than those...full stop.
You can try compatibles, filling your own and getting you fingers dirty etc. and you'll have great fun learn lots and save money into the bargain.
What you won't get is better looking prints as a result, that comes from experience.

 

[PeterBJ]

I found a compatible "big black" CLI-520 cartridge that looks to be the same brand as those shown by canon-do in post #1. The "dot test" on a piece of photo paper also indicates the ink is dye, the dots cannot be scratched off or rubbed off under running water:

Using dye ink in the "big black cartridge will not damage your print head, but you will lose the special benefits of the pigment ink, the print will be a little less sharp and not waterproof. Using pigment in the small black cartridge that is intended for dye black is a no-no. The print head might be ruined by clogging of the dye black nozzles.

 

[stratman]

It is interesting that the test for pigment vs dye ink on photo paper described in this thread is exactly opposite in results from what I recall as the original test on plain paper when water is streamed over the paper. Why use the more expensive photo paper rather than the less expensive plain paper?

 

[Technician]

At one time I had a iP4000 printer and a very nice piece of kit it was too. I'd always used OEM inks but I decided to give compatibles a go, so I sent a message to my supplier of choice to find out what ink was in their large black cartridges. I was assured it was Pigment as were all their Pigment compatibles so I purchased some.
The inks worked ok but to my eyes they were just not as good as the OEM brand, so my next ink change was back to the originals and that's when I had trouble. I discovered much later that the large black compatible I was sold was almost certainly Dye based and I believe that's what screwed my printer up. Maybe I have it wrong but I don't think so, and being blunt I would sooner stick my head in a microwave for 30 sec than put Dye ink where Pigment is supposed to go. Still I've only been printing for about 30 years so still a newbie here....

 

[PeterBJ]

The iP4000 became a best-seller when it was introduced, likely because cheap compatible cartridges were available. Sadly some of these were too cheap. These early cheap BCI-3e compatible cartridges contained pigment ink and that caused the death of many Pixma 4000 print heads. This pigment ink wasn't ground finely enough so the pigment particles clogged the print heads. The manufacturers of the compatible cartridges then replaced the pigment ink with dye ink to avoid the problem. But there were other problems with the cheap cartridges too. Ink starvation and leakage also killed many print heads. I haver lost a print head in an iP4200 due to a bad leaking third party cartridge. Leaked ink crept under the nozzle plate and created a short that took out some of the yellow nozzles.

 

[canon-do]

Thanks for the ongoing comments, guys.

I have a much better understanding of the situation now, but perhaps you wouldn't mind checking my logic.

1) It appears that my MX726 has always been loaded with dye-based, compatible, small and large black carts. Except for when it was brand new, when I would have installed the Canon carts that came with it.


2) Since my original post, I purchased a correct replacement cartridge for the small black slot. Test prints are fine.

So the two cartridges in the photo that accompanied my first post, are now spares.

The small cart in the photo is redundant, because I've replaced it with another.

And the large cart - the '650XLBK-Hi Capacity' - could be used to fill or top up either of the installed carts because it must contain dye-based ink.

As do they.

Sound right?

PS: If I were to use the Hi Capacity cart for topping up, I'd first test it to ensure it actually DOES contain dye-based ink. But it seems certain that this assumption is correct.