Can we mix pigment with pigment and pigment with dye of diff. brands?

[sampheap]

I am in Cambodia. Almost all small business here are using CIS with bulk dye ink called InkTec. Until recently, I got trouble printing crispy small text on dark background and I lost a few clients, so I decided to test pigment ink. The result with pigment ink though the color of photo is not as vivid as they Inktec ink, I can see the crispy texts!!!

I notice some of you used to talk about using combination of pigment and dye inks. I am running an Epson 1390 and 1400 here too and it seems too much for me for the pigment ink (no name) which also needed to be bought from Vietname which cost $60/L and the colors are not so accurate.

If the mix is of pigment and dye ink is not possible, then how about mixing the pigment from different brand to save cost? I saw someone suggested for better coloring by converting 1400 to:

channel 1: matte black
channel 2: photo black
channel 3: grey (light black)
channel 4: cyan
channel 5: (vivid) magenta
channel 6: yellow

How will this possible?

I would be really appreciated if you can guide me to how mixing.

Thanks in advance.

P.S: One way to save cost for me now is I can use roll paper from offset printing with pigment ink so I can cut some cost.

 

[cls]

Hi Sampheap,
you have conteacted me directly per mail before. glad to see that you finaly posted your ideas here.

I use OCP Brand inks for my printer armada (not as much as jtoolman) I pay 25 to 40 per 1000ml for the ink.

It is been always the same, good quality with no flaws inbeetween diffent batches of production.

an Epson P50 / T50 / Artisan 50 (all same models with various names for the diffent countrys) uses the same 6color based CLARIA Cartriges as the 1390/1400.

Transfering an 6 color based printer epson dye printer into an 6 channel pigmented ink machine is no magic at all BUT changing it into a K3 workhog as you described (I guess pharamacist came up with the Idea) is a whole other story: you will need a rip software that is capeable of overriding the printers chanells individually. Many 1400's end up as DTG (Direct to garment printers) machines: They use CYMK and two channels of pure White Ink as grounding base. So basicaly two channels are printing the whole IMAGE whit the White base coating first, then let it dry for up to a minute and then starting the real "color" printing itself. This whole procedure is not just simple steps for the software. MAYBE a DTG Rip software could be helpfull but its just fiction...

the asian company fullbitsoft has a rip software called DaVinciTurboRip maybe their RIP could be helpfull
only downside is that Rip software is most times protected by USB Dongle to prevent piracy and the pricepoint is like 600 too 1000 per license

Also you should consider buying an ColorMunki or an used X-Rite i1 Pro (old edition) for your own color profiles.
My Epson Stylus Photo R285 (similar to the P50 but only supports the Small cartriges with "hummingbird" not the "owl" cartriges) profiled with Inktek dye inks on cheap 280g A4 Sheets produces astonnishing pictures and I even use it for proofing issues that my clients want.

Image is practicaly the same that i have on display

 

[sampheap]

Hi Sampheap,
Also you should consider buying an ColorMunki or an used X-Rite i1 Pro (old edition) for your own color profiles.
My Epson Stylus Photo R285 (similar to the P50 but only supports the Small cartriges with "hummingbird" not the "owl" cartriges) profiled with Inktek dye inks on cheap 280g A4 Sheets produces astonnishing pictures and I even use it for proofing issues that my clients want.

Image is practicaly the same that i have on display

I am pretty new to profiling and I have read and watched many youtubes recently. I am surprised to hear that you can use Inktec dye inks for proofing as I hardly get exact color as my monitor esp. grey turns to greeny grey.

Can you recommend me more about profiling as I read so far, I will need to not only profile my monitor (the device is about $200 and I can afford this), but also the printer and profiling printer needs a very expensive device?

 

[jtoolman]

Colormunki Photo is about $450 but can be found for less on line. I paid $350.
Best investment I've EVER made and could not imagine not having it.
Yes, you can spend 3x that on a I-One but I am currently very satisfied with mine and I am getting excellent prints with OCP and OCP + IS hybrid ink sets.

Joe

 

[sampheap]

So Colormunki Photo can calibrate both the monitor and profile our printer?

 

[cls]

So Colormunki Photo can calibrate both the monitor and profile our printer?

i would go for the color munki. I own a efi es-1000, which basically is a i1 pro rebranded. Bu since the free ware argyllcms works with both and even other units i would go for the CM.
I did wrote c rite a short message regarding argyllcms and upcoming support for the tag New eyeone 2 but they are really not happy about reverse engeenered driver Software


argyllcms is quite of work but you can squezze so many colorpatches onto one sheet i even posted a thread about it

 

[sampheap]

Got very helpful suggestion:
"I buy the IS inks from precision colors: http://www.precisioncolors.com/

For the light magenta use this: http://www.precisioncolors.com/E8C2.html (E6115P)
For the black use the E1122P
For Magenta use this: http://www.precisioncolors.com/E9B3.html (E6202P)

And yes, you could use all IS pigment inks. Magenta, Photo Magenta and Black would be as above, for the Cyan, Photo Cyan and Yellow you could use the Cyan/Yellow that is for use in the R2400 and dilute the Cyan using the Gloss Optimizer that is used in the R2000. Here are the links in Precision Colors page:

http://www.precisioncolors.com/E9B3.html (you'd need the E2070P and E7031P) and
http://www.precisioncolors.com/E8C2.html (for the Gloss Optimizer E0824P)
(I use two parts cyan + part gloss optimizer, for example 20ml + 10ml)


-----------------
You can't use the light Cyan, it's very weak. Their dye Light Cyan is much denser compared to the normal Cyan than what their pigment equivalents are.

As for the accuracy, a few drops won't matter, IF you are mixing larger quantities. If you are using them in a CISS system (that takes ~80ml), like I do, just top it up when it's empty, with 60ml worth of ink (using 10ml syringes, fill in 10+10+10+10 ml of Cyan and 10+10 ml of Gloss Optimizer).
If you are using refillable cartridges, I suggest you buy an extra bottle and mix a larger amount in there."

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I don't have time to read all of this and respond, but it is a VERY BAD IDEA to mix pigment and dye ink. Pigment is held in suspension in the ink. A small change in chemistry can cause the pigment particles to clump together and sink to the bottom. If you mix pigment and dye ink, you risk ruining your print head. NO manufacturer mixes pigment and dye.

Usually it's also a very bad idea to use pigment ink for a printer that was designed for dye. The print head is designed for one or the other, and you must use the right kind of ink. The only exception I know of is that users have found that some Epson printers, but not all printers, can use either dye or pigment.

Some printers use black pigment ink for text and dye ink for photographs. You could have both black pigment and black dye. You need to be careful and use each one in the correct cartridge.

You should use only ink that is designed specifically for your printer. I have found InkTek ink to be very good for my printer, but I don't know what kind of printer you have.

When you ask questions, it is usually a good idea to state what kind of printer and what model number you have.

 

[sampheap]

Thanks for reply. @ThrillaMozilla, if you had read, you would have got all the detail.