Black and white printing

[Ink stained Fingers]

the black inks are not the complete answer, you are excluding some aspects - one is perception and the viewing conditions, the same gray tones of a B/W print may look different under different lighting contitions and there is an influence of the paper on the gray accuracy of the ink/paper combination, all aspects which either can be controlled/changed deliberately like a toning the gray, or eliminating the paper influence with a profile. B/W prints about never actually show colorimetrically corect and neutral gray tones, it was already decades ago a deliberate choice to use this or another paper in the darkroom for a particular look . And there is another element to consider, the actual black level, the Dmax which can be acheived with a particular ink/paper combination. A good deep black adds to the perceived contrast of a B/W print. more than with a color print. And that's another reason to use special black inks because they should give a better Dmax than standard inks.

 

[Emulator]

I think we are all in agreement now, except 3dogs comment about "nature photography". I can remember while in Switzerland near Davos, we were driving over a mountain ridge and stopped in a carpark, no doubt it was a good view point, but the mist obscured the view. While drinking some coffee, the mist gradually cleared away and we could hardly believe our eyes. There was a photographic team shooting a totally nude model dipping her feet into a pool. As the carpark users watched the scene, there was a sudden realisation on the part of the photo team that the visibility had improved and everybody moved very fast! I like nature photography.

 

[Roy Sletcher]

I think we are all in agreement now, except 3dogs comment about "nature photography". I can remember while in Switzerland near Davos, we were driving over a mountain ridge and stopped in a carpark, no doubt it was a good view point, but the mist obscured the view. While drinking some coffee, the mist gradually cleared away and we could hardly believe our eyes. There was a photographic team shooting a totally nude model dipping her feet into a pool. As the carpark users watched the scene, there was a sudden realisation on the part of the photo team that the visibility had improved and everybody moved very fast! I like nature photography.

Good point.

Next time I do a nude seesion, I will tell my wife it is a nature outing.

Why I like this site! You learn so much.

RS

 

[The Hat]

Good point.

Next time I do a nude session, I will tell my wife it is a nature outing.

RS

You wish…

 

[martin0reg]

Here are examples of converting color to B&W to show different "filters":



Good thing about jpg-illluminator is the framing and the printing option - you can convert (then make a frame if you like), then open the printing window for layout and sending to the printer.



You may save the converted B&W image - but you can do all this without saving just for one temporary conversion and print from your color image.

For users like me who are a bit overwhelmed by adobe's monster software. But only jpeg, no raw...
(link to download JI in post #9)

 

[3dogs]

There is an enormous disconnect between "science" and what is....

A 256 step depiction of white to black is a misleading oversimplification.

Black is a combination that is arguably infiately variable, that variability is increase by the absence of colour in all its variations of density, and colour or its absence is a perception, not a defined fact.

The various colour standards we use as reference points are a clumsy attempt by humans to communicate an intagable sense. They try to offer us a reference point on which we can complete a "contract" that sets out and agrees that a numeric value applied to a "COLOUR" then we can all get warm and fuzzy and put a common label on that colour.
To submit your creativity in (monochrmatic) format to scale of 0 -256 is an exercise in the rediculous as there is no mono in black for starters....
So lets dispence with the "science" and go with the brain.......

In any given colour image the finer the gaduation of shades and tones the math that drives the convesion is going to analize and attempt to provide an outcome based on maths for each pix, that math is going to cause the printer to make an attempt to print what that math calclated as an outcome, and the distribution of ink on paper is going to cause the eye and the brain to make electrical impulses that we "see" as tone /colour.....if that is done right there will be an awful lot more than 256 steps between pure white (for starters the paper its printed on will likely not be "0") and "256" which is a rgb mix to start with......

Finally whist i am sat firmly on my potty and have my foil hat slightly askew (but in place) I am willing to say that it is not possible to print a black and white image on a RGB printer, so rolling out theoretical dogma is both futile and for me provocative heresy that I strongly disagree with. I accept and acknlowledge the right of others to see and define in terms I refere to as dogma and or piffle.
My point is real simple, the belief that Perception overrides Theory in a visulal Artform and that is why some of the most inspiring images I have seen are so desaturated as to appear to be black and white all had one thing in common the Artist that printed them was able to convey every single tone change so as to create an image that had the graphic impact that the medium can deliver and also allowed me to visuaise the subtle effect of light on the subject matter.
I intend NO disrespect to anyone, so if the conviction and insight with which i express my appreciation of the beauty off the medium and reproduction on paper offends - I apologise, my view carries no more weight than yours.

 

[martin0reg]

I have a R285 with a custom B&W ink set, 6 shades of gray..
..therefore I just tried some conversions - including "greyscale" files (no printing yet)

-converting color to B&W by setting saturation to "0". Which may not be the best for matching the human perception of colors as values of gray.
-by using B&W "filters" as shown in my previous post (which may result in very different conversions).



These conversions would firstly remain RGB files, and can be converted to grayscale files.
IMHO there is no loss of information in this "file-conversion", because you lost it already.



If I convert the color-RGB directly to grayscale, the result curiously seems to depend on my software: see the last two samples..

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

the software needs a formula to calculate a lightness/gray value from the RGB values, and if they use different weight factors for the RGB values you get different gray values. The software won't most likely tell you the weight factors they are using, and as soon as you are adding 'color filters' you are effectively changing these factors yourself. And as soon as you add more sophisticated filters like HDR with local (color) contrast enhancement you are getting into the creative realm . I cannot find it anymore but I remember an image, pretty colorful, with flowers which after B/W conversion looked almost plain gray , not many distinguishable details , all different colors, but most of them calculated into almost the same gray level.

 

[martin0reg]

...And as soon as you add more sophisticated filters like HDR with local (color) contrast enhancement you are getting into the creative realm ..

Could not resist to show one more time what jpg-illuminator is actually about:



Pseudo-HDR from one image, adjusted with only two sliders of my favorite freeware.
PS and LR certainly can do this too .. but not for free .. and not as easy, I think.

okay I will finish my promotion

 

[RogerB]

Finally whist i am sat firmly on my potty and have my foil hat slightly askew (but in place) I am willing to say that it is not possible to print a black and white image on a RGB printer, so rolling out theoretical dogma is both futile and for me provocative heresy that I strongly disagree with.

Try printing the Northlight test image on your 3880, on a good paper, like a baryta, using ABW. Gives the best darkroom prints a good run for their money.