BCI-6 Starvation - Won't drip

[RWL]

Neither of my two cyan BCI-6 cartridges will print any more. One is an original Canon for my i860 and the other is a generic cartridge - -probably from Atlantic Ink.

I followed Grandad's purge procedure and then purged the printhead with water also. The other colors are working although occasionally the BCI-6-black cartridge gets faint on a 4 color purge test, so that one's probably being a little starved as well. If I take out the refill screw and leave the hole over the tank open, it might drip one drop in 30 seconds. Not like it used to if I didn't get the tank sealed and it leaked all over. Neither cartridge has been refilled more than 4 or 5 times and this is their first cleaning purge. I've been using the correct ink from Atlantic ink. I couldn't tell you how old the ink is - at least 3 years anyway.

Here are two pictures of a purged cartridge:

This is the side view.

It doesn't look like the sponge is lifted up off of the bottom to prevent the ink from coming out, and it's pretty white, so nothing should be holding the ink in.

Here's a view of the bottom:

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Although the sponge on the opening is lightly stained blue (as are my hands) it doesn't look clogged, and if I put alcohol on it, it soaks into the sponge.

Any thoughts on how to get the cartridges to drip correctly?

RWL

 

[Grandad35]

RWL,

The sponges appear to be in their proper positions. Here is a photo of a purged and dried OEM Cyan cart. Your photo looks like your cart is still "wet" inside. Water and ink have different surface tensions, and too much water will upset the cart's operation.

What does your cart look like after you fill it with ink? What happens if you fill it, seal the refill hole with your finger, then blow into the vent on the top of the sponge chamber? Once you get it to drip from blowing, remove your finger from the refill hole to see if it drips on its own.

 

[RWL]

Here's the companion cartridge that was purged and refilled at the same time. This one is a clone instead of an original Canon cartridge. The air bubble in the tank looks funny because it's lying horizonally.

I took the screw out, closed the opening with my finger and blew through the vent hole over the sponge. Ink came out, but when I took my finger off it didn't continue to drip.

As you noted in the other picture of the empty cartridge, the insides were still a little wet when I refilled them. I don't know if that could be the cause or not. I blew through the fill hole and water came out the ink hole. I also blew through the ink hole, but that didn't do much. I have a vacuum set up at home and gave a minus 15 psi via a 3/8" dia fuel hose to the ink outlet. I didn't see any water come out.

RWL

 

[Grandad35]

I took the screw out, closed the opening with my finger and blew through the vent hole over the sponge. Ink came out, but when I took my finger off it didn't continue to drip.

I assume that the "blown out" area at the bottom of the cart in your photo is from a reflection, and that it isn't the actual appearance of the cart.

Since the cart doesn't work as it is, blow out a few CCs of ink by blowing into the vent hole to see if it makes a difference. If that doesn't work, seal the exit port with the clip, open the refill hole, and tip the cart forward at 45 degrees. Ink should drain from the ink chamber into the sponge chamber.

I blew through the fill hole and water came out the ink hole.

You shouldn't be ale to blow out water from any port after a cart is dried. I used to use a vacuum cleaner to remove water from a cart, but I now blow 10 psi compressed air into the ink chamber while covering the vent port with my finger. I then tap the sponges into place and place the carts upside down on a cookie sheet. A small fan then blows over the exit port for several days to finish the drying process. I have refilled carts after the compressed air treatment without the final fan drying, and they worked properly (but the ink was a little diluted).

 

[RWL]

Grandad, thanks for your comments.

Grandad35 wrote
I assume that the "blown out" area at the bottom of the cart in your photo is from a reflection, and that it isn't the actual appearance of the cart.

Reflection. Correct.

Grandad35 wrote

Since the cart doesn't work as it is, blow out a few CCs of ink by blowing into the vent hole to see if it makes a difference. If that doesn't work, seal the exit port with the clip, open the refill hole, and tip the cart forward at 45 degrees. Ink should drain from the ink chamber into the sponge chamber.

It took a good bit of effort to blow ink out the exit port, but I got a few drops. Opening the refill hole and tilting it at 45 didn't change the ink level in the tank, and it didn't start dripping.

RWL wrote:

I blew through the fill hole and water came out the ink hole.

Grandad35 wrote
You shouldn't be able to blow out water from any port after a cart is dried.

My comment had been in regard to blowing the water out after the purge to dry it. I just put my mouth to the refill hole and blew the water out the exit port. I used cold water by the way. Not allowed to use the sinks for anything that messy and no utility sink in the cellar. Outside spigot. Over the course of a few attempts I tried blowing into the fill hole with the air compressor - no water out, and connecting the exit port to 15 psi vacuum - no water out. I either did an excellent job blowing the water out by mouth, or something is trapping the water (and now the ink) in the sponge.

Hmmm. I wonder if you can get the sponge too pushed down onto the bottom. I went down to the shop and tapped the full cartridge upside down on the workbench. Took out the screw - still no drip. Put the screw back in and tried tapping it on the end away from the tank to see if the sponge was somehow stuck to the wall where the grooves are. That caused a thin layer of ink to collect on the top of the sponge and a few bubbles of air came up through the ink. It actually dripped a little after this - about a drop every 10 seconds or so. The ink is getting to the sponge, but it's being trapped there. Put the cartridge in a vacuum chamber and a little ink foamed out the vent hole, but that still didn't let it drip freely when the fill screw was removed.

I have not put ink back into the cartridge shown in my initial post. I may give it a full day to dry out and see if that makes any difference at all. I put that one in the vacuum chanber and one or two drops came out the vent hole, but it didn't foam like air was rushing out of the sponge. Time to quit for the night. I'll see if I have time to play with it during the evenings this week. Other thoughts?

RWL

 

[pharmacist]

Some people are using the vacuum refilling method, but this method can be used to dry the sponge after purging much faster.

The trick is to rinse the cartridge the last time with distilled water, let the sponge saturate completely with it, blow this water out and then use the following solution:

-78 % distilled water
-20 % isopropyl alcohol
-2 % propylene glycol or glycerol

Let the sponge saturate completely again but this time with this solution an let it remain there for several minutes. This solution also kills most of the germs which might be growing in the sponge and the propylene glycol will lower the surface tension in the sponge, facilitating the penetration degree of the ink used to refill the cartridge. Then blow away most of the solution out of the cartridge (mouth above the breathing hole) and put the cartridge in the vacuum jar and vacuum dry the cartridge several times until completely dry (open the jar after each vacuum pulling to let the vapours to escape).
What wil happen that most of th water and the isopropyl alcohol will be evaporated but the propylene glycol not and this minute amount of propylene glycol is very beneficial for the penetration of the ink and acts as an surfactant agent and helps to reduce the amount of stationary air bubbles in the sponge, which might cause clogging.

 

[Grandad35]

Hmmm. I wonder if you can get the sponge too pushed down onto the bottom. I went down to the shop and tapped the full cartridge upside down on the workbench. Took out the screw - still no drip. Put the screw back in and tried tapping it on the end away from the tank to see if the sponge was somehow stuck to the wall where the grooves are. That caused a thin layer of ink to collect on the top of the sponge and a few bubbles of air came up through the ink. It actually dripped a little after this - about a drop every 10 seconds or so. The ink is getting to the sponge, but it's being trapped there. Put the cartridge in a vacuum chamber and a little ink foamed out the vent hole, but that still didn't let it drip freely when the fill screw was removed.

If the sponges are tightly compacted against the back wall (that separates the two chambers) or the bottom, this can prevent proper ink flow. Tap the cart on its front edge and top until the sponge is visibly free of the the back and bottom, then LIGHTLY tap it on the bottom and back to just get the sponge into place. Lightly push up on the bottom of the round filter with your little fingertip (at the exit port). The filter should easily slide up and compress the bottom sponge, then return to its normal position from the sponge pressure.

I used cold water by the way.

Cold water will clean most of the ink, but it will not dissolve the concentrated ink residue that builds up on the sponges and filter. I don't believe that this is the problem in your case, however.

 

[nche11]

It sounded like a ink compatibility problem. I had a Canon s820d that was refilled with a refill ink I purchased from a computer store. The ink starvation symptom actually occurred only after 2 or 3 refills. The ink refused, or was reluctant, to drip even with the screw unscrewed from the top. My printer showed some banding when printing full sided photos. When I replaced the cartridges with a set of new OEM cartridges the problem was improved. The banding was almost all gone. But when the ink was running low again I refilled the OEM cartridges with the same refill ink again. The starvation repeated after a few refill later again. The 2nd time I had OEM cartridges in the printer. I do not think it was an issue related to quality of cartridges. It was the ink that was poor quality. I gave up the printer to the ghost.

Watch out for ink made in China. Those ink are packaged in 100 ml bottles with funny looking labels on them. It is easily recognized because of the 100 ml bottle used. I have only seen very small cosmetic containers in ml capacity. Everything contained in bottles are always in ounce, pint, quart or gallon capacities.

 

[lin]

Some people are using the vacuum refilling method, but this method can be used to dry the sponge after purging much faster.

The trick is to rinse the cartridge the last time with distilled water, let the sponge saturate completely with it, blow this water out and then use the following solution:

-78 % distilled water
-20 % isopropyl alcohol
-2 % propylene glycol or glycerol

Let the sponge saturate completely again but this time with this solution an let it remain there for several minutes. This solution also kills most of the germs which might be growing in the sponge and the propylene glycol will lower the surface tension in the sponge, facilitating the penetration degree of the ink used to refill the cartridge. Then blow away most of the solution out of the cartridge (mouth above the breathing hole) and put the cartridge in the vacuum jar and vacuum dry the cartridge several times until completely dry (open the jar after each vacuum pulling to let the vapours to escape).
What wil happen that most of th water and the isopropyl alcohol will be evaporated but the propylene glycol not and this minute amount of propylene glycol is very beneficial for the penetration of the ink and acts as an surfactant agent and helps to reduce the amount of stationary air bubbles in the sponge, which might cause clogging.

Hi pharmacist, wonder where can I find propylene glycol or glycerol? Thanks.

 

[RWL]

Lin wrote:
Hi pharmacist, wonder where can I find propylene glycol or glycerol?

Gycerol=glycerine. Available at the drug stores for about $2.50 for a 4 oz bottle in my area of PA.

My question for pharmacist is whether denatured alcohol could be substituted since I have some of that on hand. Not sure what's in it to denature it although I've read that it may include xylene and gasoline, albeit in very small amounts. Looking over pharmacist's comments, I suspect the glycerine may be very helpful even if I didn't use alcohol since that was in some inkjet inks many years ago - think original bubble jet printers and Canon BJ-1 carts. I imagine that the alcohol aids in dissolving old ink and also evaporates more quickly than water allowing faster drying of the sponge.

nche11 wrote:
It sounded like a ink compatibility problem.

Interesting anecdote and a potential cause. I don't want to change the thread to whose ink is "best", but is Atlantic Ink good quality or has that been problematic for others? I had used MIS inks in the long distant past, but went with Atlantic a few years back when I bought the i860 based on recommendations in a newsgroup.

RWL