Always this messy?

[Roy Sletcher]

What are the technology advances? If you can put CLI-42 chips on CLI-8 carts and use them on Pro-100 it proves by itself that the printers are essentially brothers and have a same set of genes despite they were born in different time.

OK, I agree there are definitely some firmware advances. Pro-100 does print subjectively better pictures in some way. That may be a big step forward by Canon. However, Canon claimed to use specific red and green color dyes for formulating their red and green inks for Pro9000. They are forever lost and Pro-100 can never print those spectacular ultra rich red and green colors any more. Should this be considered a step backward of the Pro-100?

Everybody makes their choices based on the facts - as they see them!

My recollection on the Pro9000 was that the red and green was only used with the highest quality media settings - my recollection being there were only two of them, and even then very sparingly. R and G cartridges lasted for ever - can be viewed as a good thing economically, or a bad thing from a colour and image quality perspective if the inks were barely used.

With the Pro100 and the R and G now becoming L and D grey it proves conclusively THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGES TO THE PRINT ENGINE AND FIRMWARE. More like step brothers than brothers.

The pro9000 was a great printer in its day, but not even a close match for the Pro100.

I could go on fidelity of grey scale, smoother transitions, and more.

Bottom line if you like your 9000 good for you. I don't want to convince you to change. It is your choice.

rs

 

[Tin Ho]

I totally agree that Pro-100 is a better printer in most printing applications. If Canon's claim wasn't a hype that it used unique red and green color dyes to formulate the red and green inks for the Pro9000 then Pro-100 apparently lacks such feature. Not I really care about that but it is real that you don't no more have the spectacular red and green colors from Pro-100. I am not saying Pro-100 does not print saturate red and green but there are likely pros out there who will point out the differences that Pro9000 is more capable of it.

Pro9000 and Pro-100 both have a same number of nozzles of 6144 total, a same printing resolution of 4800x2400 dpi and almost identical printing speed. Based on these I can't tell if Pro-100 got a different engine. However, I did find that Pro-100's nozzle size is 3 picoliter and Pro9000 is smaller at 2 picoliter. Canon is telling us nozzle size of 2 and 3 picoliter make no difference in the printer's resolution. Interesting!

I have both printers by the way.

 

[Artur5]

I tend to agree with Roy. My CLI-8 red and green cartridges also seem to last forever. At least ten times more than the yellow or photo magenta. In fact, I suspect that most of the red and green ink is wasted in the cleaning cycles that the printer does when you change any cartridge o when it hasn’t been used for some time.

According to Pro9000’s service manual the printer will use Red and Green only with the highest quality setting of the driver and only with 3 Canon papers : PR-101 (Photo paper pro) PP-101 (Photo paper plus glossy) and SG-201 (Photo paper plus semigloss). That manual was released in 2006, so I expect that newer high quality papers like Platinum, ProII or Plus semi glossy II will also use Red and Green. None of the fine art or matte paper settings use them at all.

I expect that the addition of grey and light grey enhances quite visibly the output of the Pro100, specially B&W prints, while Red and Green channels are only marginal improvements of the Pro9000 over 6 color printers. In all truth, I have compared test images printed with the Pro9000, IP4000 and IP4500. As you know, these last two models have only four colors vs eight of the Pro9000. Possibly a colorimeter would say otherwise, but my eyes see no difference in the gamut of reds and greens from any of these three printers.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

you would need a spectrometer and profiling software to measure the overall gamut, and only that would show whether special colors like green or orange or blue or red etc actually widen the gamut in this color range. Doing this with testprints is difficult - you just need colors close to the gamut edge to see whether you still can differentiate them or not. But there is another advantage of those colors - you need some less ink when printing green with a green ink, and not as a mix of cyan and yellow. It's not much but measurable as such, but with a disadvantage already addressed - more ink from more cartridges is flushed at every cartridge change, so those savings are directly offset. The usage of the inks - yellow to green to cyan - is defined by the driver software, by an internal table, and it may very well be that the green ink is only used for the more saturated colors, and all others are mixed from yellow and cyan in the necessary ratio. 2 or 3 pl don't make much difference, and that's only the smallest drop sizes, Canon uses different nozzle rows for different droplet sizes, and it's the driver again selecting them based on the number of print passes, quality settings and the saturation needed. And there is a dithering pattern as a mix of all inks used , and this dithering algorithm defines how smooth a printed color looks at the end.
The situation is no different with Epson printers, here is a comparison of printers with 1.5 and 3.5 pl droplets

The differences are barely visible here with high magnification, and even less under normal viewing conditions, the color patches are 6x7 mm in the actual prints.

 

[apetitphoto]

So what I'm reading in the last few posts is interesting (Perhaps a new thread?). Printers are really C,M,Y and sometimes K, and sometimes other "spiker" colors. If true this confirms a nagging suspicion I've had about marketing...

 

[Methodical]

Yes, I use ColorMunki to calibrate my monitor.
Yes, I use a light box with 5000K LED lights to view both the prints. Both prints were printed from the same photo within an hour of one another using Luster paper. The only two differences were that I changed the ink cartridges from OEM Canon to Precision Colors and I'm using the ICM files that match their respective ink.

Based on what your saying, the only difference is the ink (or mixing of the 2 inks). Sounds like the mixing of two inks may be the issue as far as the print color goes. Once all the old ink is out, then you may find a more definitive answer. I can't say that I had a similar problem when I started refilling, but it's been over 3 years or so now.

Personally, I always make a custom profile and skip those ICMs and have had much better printing. Those ICMs are perfect for those that can't make a custom profile. I've used them in the past when I did not have the capability. I use the ColorMunki, too, and make custom profiles for each type of print paper I use.

Btw, here's a test image (used a similar one in the past) that I use when I calibrate my monitor. Not sure if it will help you, but thought I put out there.

https://cmac.smugmug.com/SmugMug/Prints/Test-prints/Calibration-prints/i-TccrMm3/A

Good luck

Just One Man's Opinion.

 

[PalaDolphin]

Based on what your saying, the only difference is the ink (or mixing of the 2 inks). Sounds like the mixing of two inks may be the issue as far as the print color goes. Once all the old ink is out, then you may find a more definitive answer. I can't say that I had a similar problem when I started refilling, but it's been over 3 years or so now.

I'm using used CLI-42 cartridges that I flushed, so there wouldn't be any ink mixture. It's all PC ink.

 

[berttheghost]

@PalaDolphin
I used to slightly overfill the carts on my pro-9500 until I found that most of the excess ink found its way into or on the capping station, purge unit, and the associated levers and links. Only then did I figure out WHY I was having such problems with clogged nozzles, And WHY all of those head cleanings apparently did nothing. Too late to save the print-head, though. So inspect and clean as needed.

A few bonus tips. Keep all but the cart currently being refilled and the correct bottle of refill ink safely out of reach. Check the cart against the ink bottle when fetching the bottle and again before dispensing the ink into the cart.

Never return dispensed ink to its storage bottle, and never return ink from a cart to its storage bottle. This helps to prevent contamination of inks with either other inks or foreign substances. (Be careful with those 'squishy' bottles with the convenient needle on top.)

And try to stay focused on the refilling task. It's too easy to dwell on the print one is planning to make and neglect the task at hand. Refilling is easy enough but it is not trivial.

 

[PalaDolphin]

@PalaDolphin
I used to slightly overfill the carts on my pro-9500 until I found that most of the excess ink found its way into or on the capping station, purge unit, and the associated levers and links. Only then did I figure out WHY I was having such problems with clogged nozzles, And WHY all of those head cleanings apparently did nothing. Too late to save the print-head, though. So inspect and clean as needed.

Are you suggesting that my overfilling the ink cartridges may have killed my print-head?

A few bonus tips. Keep all but the cart currently being refilled and the correct bottle of refill ink safely out of reach. Check the cart against the ink bottle when fetching the bottle and again before dispensing the ink into the cart.

Of course.

Never return dispensed ink to its storage bottle, and never return ink from a cart to its storage bottle. This helps to prevent contamination of inks with either other inks or foreign substances. (Be careful with those 'squishy' bottles with the convenient needle on top.)

That sounds gross; would never.

And try to stay focused on the refilling task. It's too easy to dwell on the print one is planning to make and neglect the task at hand. Refilling is easy enough but it is not trivial.

I'm always systematic in this process.

So, is it possible by overfilling my cart I've killed my printhead?

 

[berttheghost]

Are you suggesting that my overfilling the ink cartridges may have killed my print-head?
...
So, is it possible by overfilling my cart I've killed my printhead?

No, I think that you'll have to wait a while before you achieve that milestone. It will eventually happen if you stay with refilling, if only because you'll wear it out.

The best advice I can give you is to learn the role of the capping station and purge unit and to keep it well maintained. That should go a long way toward extending the life of your print-heads.

(If you're really into that kind of thing, you might consider installing a 'printer potty' or equivalent, not as a waste ink collector but as a purge unit monitor.)