After years of success, the German Refill Method didn't work!

[Nifty]

Thanks for all the great comments guys!

Just to clarify again: The end of the needle is pushed all the way into the non-sponge / reservoir section of the cartridge. I've tested this 100 times with the end of the needle right up against the prism, back 1/32 of an inch, and back 1/16 and 1/8. So, again, even though the video is misleading (too much ink blocking view, etc.) the end of the needle is not in the sponge side.

I've also tried many forms of "reverse pressure" with syringes pulling air from the reservoir and also another time removing ink from the sponge side. Additionally, I've tried tapping the cart to try to shift the sponge. Unfortunately neither process has made a difference.

What do you think about the size of the entry point hole in the plastic where the needle is inserted? Should this be a very tight fit to slow down air exiting, or should it be large to allow air to exit?

This raises the question: Where is the ideal place for air to exit out of the cart during the German refill method?

It seems that the major consensus is the cart being overfilled. I'll first test purging the tank (using a mix including Propylene Glycol ). If that works, I shouldn't see any ink wick back up the needle and into the sponge side during refill.

If that doesn't make a difference I may experiment with a slightly bent needle, larger entry hole, blunt needle, etc.

Any other ideas or comments? Please keep them coming!

 

[stratman]

1) When using a sharp needle, if the entire cannulated area of the needle tip is NOT in the spongeless side then you can get ink injected into the sponge and/or channel under the sponge around the needle. Make sure the entire tip of the needle where ink comes out is in the spongeless side.

2) Tapping the cartridge upside down may lead to sponge separation or the infamous air channel block under the sponge.

3) One can top off the spongeless side with ink still in the spongeless side and NOT have a leak. There is something else "wrong" than a saturated sponge.

4) I use a push pin to make the Durchstich refill hole and, after some torquing, the hole allows an 18 gauge needle to be inserted easily. There is no need to use a bigger hole than one ever so slightly larger than the caliber of your needle.

5) During refilling, displaced air exits the cartridge via the air vent, the ink exit port, and the Durchstich hole.

6) Bent needles are not necessary. But the question is relevant - would it help, would it create other problems such as with the sponge, risk of breaking off in the cartridge, and injury risk when making the bend?

7) If blowing into the air vent on the top of your cartridge does not clear an hypothesized ink clog, then a simple flush with water - followed by ghwellsjr's paper towel wick dry method - should be all you need. Don't forget to blow into the air vent on top of the cartridge just before your wick the sponge dry. Same advice applies if removing ink from the sponge with your needle and syringe or from continued printing does not resolve the issue.

Reasons for you problem:

A) The cannula of the needle is partially in the sponged side and ink is injected into the sponge. Use at least 2" or 50 mm needle and make sure entire needle tip in the spongeless side.

B) Ink in the grooves along the sponge or ink in the maze which prevent movement of air. Use the cartridge more until the ink is used up more, remove ink from the sponge, blow into air vent, or flush and blow.

C) A non-compliant sponge due to sludge or a contaminant. Flush and blow.

D) Sponge mutilation causing flow problems. Obtain new cartridge.

If nothing works then obtain a new cartridge. Life is short.

 

[Tudor]

The needle is not in the spongeless ink chamber. You can see that when it's retracted and then forced back into the dividing wall. What you think is the tip of the needle forced against the prism is actually some fibers from the sponge. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

When I refill a cartridge first I draw quickly about 1 cc of air out of the spongeless chamber, then I insert the ink. Never had a problem (yet).

 

[Nifty]

Guys, let me set the record straight (again): Even if it doesn't look like it in the video OR even if I am doing it wrong in the video, I can GUARANTEE that when I'm not fumbling with a video camera, I AM inserting the needle ALL THE WAY INTO THE RESERVOIR CHAMBER, NOT STOPPING AT THE SPONGE and am still experiencing this problem.

 

[The Hat]

I'm not fumbling with a video camera, I AM inserting the needle ALL THE WAY INTO THE RESERVOIR CHAMBER

Then flush out the cartridge and start again this time using a smaller gauge needle and feck the camera.
Im the one holding the elephants tail and you know what that means

 

[stratman]

I'm not fumbling with a video camera, I AM inserting the needle ALL THE WAY INTO THE RESERVOIR CHAMBER

Then flush out the cartridge and start again this time using a smaller gauge needle and feck the camera.
Im the one holding the elephants tail and you know what that means

Yes, you took over this woman's job.

We need to train our elephants better.

 

[Grandad35]

...snip... When I refill a cartridge first I draw quickly about 1 cc of air out of the spongeless chamber, then I insert the ink. Never had a problem (yet).

Do you use a squeeze bottle or syringe to withdraw the air?

....snip.... I AM inserting the needle ALL THE WAY INTO THE RESERVOIR CHAMBER, NOT STOPPING AT THE SPONGE ....

Same here.

I just refilled a few carts to see what I could learn based on the preceding discussions (plus one of my own):
1. Adding a tapered point to the tip of the blunt needle had little or no effect.
2. I used my squeeze bottle to attempt to pull a little ink from the sponge back into the needle (hard to do with such a low vacuum). This seemed to help a little, but it was far from a "cure".
3. I blew out the ink from the sponge (by mouth) before starting to refill. This was probably twice as effective as pulling ink back into the needle, but it still wasn't a cure, and ink bubbled from the exit port for most of the fill cycle.
4. I added a second hole in the cart so that two needles could be inserted into the ink chamber - one to refill and one for a "vent needle" to allow a direct path for air to enter the ink chamber. I expected this to have a good chance of helping, but it did practically nothing.

The first time that I filled these two sets of carts, there was (obviously) no problem. The second time, one or two carts had a problem. I am now on about the 4th refill of these two sets of test carts, and the problem seems to be getting worse with each refill. I suspect that I have overfilled the sponges and that the grooves are now full of ink and blocking this vent path. When using the "top fill" method, there was no problem in completely filling the sponges, as long as there was no ink above the sponges, and I suspect that I was not careful enough about controlling the ink level in the sponges.

 

[Tudor]

Do you use a squeeze bottle or syringe to withdraw the air?

A syringe and the sponge is not overfilled. After I draw some air out I begin to inject ink slowly and, if it goes in the ink chamber, I increase the debit. I never force ink in when I start.

I AM inserting the needle ALL THE WAY INTO THE RESERVOIR CHAMBER, NOT STOPPING AT THE SPONGE and am still experiencing this problem.

Is the sponge always full of ink when you begin to refill?

 

[stratman]

Folks:

I have refilled cartridges when there is still ink in the spongeless compartment. Some of those refills have sponges completely colored by ink. A "saturated" sponge does not necessarily mean trouble. Trouble may occur when you see ink above the sponge on the plastic ceiling over the sponge. This is what we see in Rob's video. This could be the reason, or a contributing factor, for Rob's issue.

This is all becoming Schrodinger's cat - we don't know the state of the cartridge but we can force a decision by flushing the cartridge.

Flush the cartridge and kitty should live. If not, get a new kitty.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

NOTE: It's hard to tell in the video, but the end of the needle is pushed against the air level prism and then slightly backed off of it.

I don't see how it could be. It should show up as a thick, dark line, and there's nothing there. You can put a ruler on the image and follow the needle to where it should be visible in the spongeless chamber, but there's nothing there -- only air. You can also see the end (you can see it as a dark shadow) when you push it in. It stops when the needle hits the wall between chambers. You can also see the needle stop when you push it.

You can also tell by measuring the length of the needle. Take it out and measure on the needle from the prism to the end of the cartridge. Now mark the spot on the needle and you can tell if it has gone far enough in.