A German refill problem ?

[barfl2]

A further thought after looking again at Octoinks instructions regarding possible cures to ink starvation is to gently squeeze bottle whilst pulling it out of the cart, stopping just before the exit. thus hopefully re-establishing the path between ink tank and outlet sponge. Also suggested is to drip a little ink on the outlet filter but not saturate it.

Perhaps this plus a firm tap might help in some situations.

It is always assumed that we can keep re-filling these OEM carts but in reality like compatible ones were only intended for single use and designed for that purpose, compared to the professional end of the market

 

[The Hat]

It is always assumed that we can keep re-filling these OEM carts but in reality like compatible ones were only intended for single use and designed for that purpose, compared to the professional end of the market

Most if not all Canon cartridges can be refilled again and again but may need to be purged once in a while
just to being them back to like new condition again, say after about six refills !

One single OEM cartridge purchased new will cost about the same price as a complete set
of compatible cartridges for your printer, so there is the build quality question answered.

The main reason why we strongly suggest refilling only OEM cartridges is just that,
they are built to last indefinitely unlike the 3rd party compatibles which can fail in no time at all.

The only thing that can kill (Destroy) an OEM cartridge is in the way its filled and maintained
and most certainly not by continual normal useage because it will usually outlast the printer it came with..

 

[fotofreek]

I have some OEM carts that have been refilled, with periodic purging, for almost 10 years. I've always done top filling. From seeing a few posts on the German method it appears to me that the sponge/outlet filter could possibly be damaged. I also read several posts that seemed to state that no purging is necessary with the German method. Looks like purging might be occasionally necessary to keep the carts flowing properly.

 

[Grandad35]

snip. The main reason why we strongly suggest refilling only OEM cartridges is just that, they are built to last indefinitely unlike the 3rd party compatibles which can fail in no time at all.

Actually, there is another reason to use only OEM carts when refilling using the german method. The following series of photos was copied from an old post, and shows an "Old Inkgrabber" cart (2 piece sponge). Note the extended height of the exit filter compared to an OEM cart there is no way to slide the needle along the bottom of the cart. I believe that the extended height of the exit filter is typical of many 3rd party carts. I also found that it is possible to easily push a needle through an OEM sponge, but that the sponges in 3rd party carts just want to bunch up in front of the needle.

 

[barfl2]

Looking at this picture which shows the hole position too high and the needle inclined downwards to pass through the port into the ink tank to some extent it confirms PeterBj opinion that it might seperate the sponge/filter and possibly damage the sponge.

So to minimise possible problems I feel that it is essential to get the needle hole just above the floor (the bevel edge shows the thickness) and keep it as straight as possible. To achieve quite a high accuracy will probably require a template for each cart.

Like PeterBj I had no problems with the earlier ones but the 521's seem a bit more problematical. However I have had no problem with the PGBK but perhaps that is because I have 4 of them and use a different one each time, plus they last longer in the printer due to their extra capacity.

It does appear that the much loved German system is proving more suspect with the newer carts.

The Hat has already suggested regular maintenance which is sensible, but you will need some sort of a system of keeping a track of your cart re-filling, something I must confess I have paid scant attention to up to now.

I do not think that we can dispute that the Top fill system provides the least disturbance to the cart, and I can well understand its popularity It may may well be the preferred
method for the newer opaque carts involving weighing

 

[joseph1949]

To: barfl2

Per reply #10

Quote:

Top fill seems so basic and simple so why do so many like myself cannot get consistent results. I either get quick troublefree or ink seems to be coming up everywhere, particularly the outlet before I am even 50% full and inky bubbles from the fill hole. Another problem with the newer printers is one of top clearance. Those low profile plugs are pesky little devils, and I am always worried my cart is 100% airtight.

End of quote.

To get consistent positive results using the top fill method one has to remember one thingdetails.
It took me over 18 months to get the details down so I had consistent positive results.

Here are the details:

1. The most important detail is how you hold the cart. You should hold in the horizontal position (like you see it in the printhead) from the time you remove the cart from the printhead to the time you place the cart into the printhead. The only time you do not have the cart in the horizontal position is when you are resetting the cart. It is O.K. to have the cart in the down position (i.e. fill hole in the down position). I would say 10 degrees from the horizontal would be acceptable. What is not O.K. is to have the cart in the up position (i.e. the fill hole in the up position). The problem with the up position is that you have an excellent chance of overfilling the cart.

How do you know that you have overfilled the cart? You know that you have over filled the cart when you see ink coming from the vent opening. When this happens I wipe the ink from the vent opening (the vent opening is to the far left of the fill hole). I then place the cart into the printhead. I keep an eye out to see if there is leakage from the cart. (Note: I have never seen leakage (knock on wood) from a cart when I have had ink coming from the vent hole.) Some people say that you need to flush out the cart if you see ink coming from the vent opening. I believe that this is an overreaction (but a prudent one)your call.

Conclusion: When you keep the cart in the horizontal position you will not overfill the cart.

2. To keep from having ink bubbles coming out of the top fill hole you need to have the fill hole as large as possibleup to 5/32 in diameter. The large fill hole will enable the air to escape from the ink reservoir without causing air bubbles. If the hole is less than 5/32 it will be easier to seal, but a smaller hole will cause bubblesyour call. If you intend to use silicone plugs be sure to match the hole to the size of the plug. It would also help if you slowly squeeze ink into the reservoir. This will allow the air to escape from the reservoir without causing bubbles. You can try placing the needle into the ink while squeezing or you can keep the needle above the inkyour call.

3. Silicone plugs are a pain. In fact any plug that is not a hot glue plug is a pain.

Note: I know that some of you use stainless screws with/without O-rings, silicone plugs, aluminum tape, etc. with success. You are the exception. Most likely you are using a printer that does not have a clearance problem and you keep a watch out for any possible problems.

To eliminate the problem of using silicone plugs I use hot glue as the plug material. To create the plug I use my coin/paper disc method. The coin/paper disc method enables me to keep the thickness of the hot glue cap down to 1/32. This is what you need if you have a clearance problem with your printer. If you use hot glue you have to be anal. It is not a set-and-forget method. Once you have created the glue plug you need to turn the cart upside down for a few seconds (longer is better). You then turn the cart right side up and place a tissue on the plug. If you see no ink, you are good to go. If you see ink, you will need to replace the plugyahoo!!!! If you are not anal stay away from hot glue!!!!!!!!

4. It is best that you do not fill the ink reservoir to the very top. I would keep at least a 1/4 gap. The main reason for keeping a gap is that the gap makes for less of a mess. Also, you will be less likely to overfill the cart!!!!!!!

barfl2, I hope I have helped you and others in doing Top filling. When you get the details down Top filling is not difficult. I would be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you.

 

[Grandad35]

2. To keep from having ink bubbles coming out of the top fill hole you need to have the fill hole as large as possible....

Are you talking about a single large "soap bubble" that forms at the top of the fill hole or foam inside of the ink chamber that makes a real mess when it is pushed out of the fill hole? If you have foam inside the ink chamber, let the cart sit for a few hours - the foam will break up and disappear. It is then easy to fill the chamber without creating additional bubbles. If the problem is a single large bubble, dry the outside of the needle and the area around the refill hole before inserting the needle. Be careful to keep ink from dripping from the needle until after the needle has passed through the hole - a bubble can't form if the hole is dry.

4. It is best that you do not fill the ink reservoir to the very top. I would keep at least a 1/4 gap.

Since I don't have any foam in the ink chamber, I fill the ink chamber to the top to maximize the volume of ink in the cart and minimize the number of cartridge changes. If you see ink above the sponges, blow into the vent to blow out enough ink to clear this area.

 

[joseph1949]

To: Grandad35

Thank you for your reply.

I was referring to a bubble(s) coming from the top hole and not foam in the reservoir.

It was an oversight of mine to not say what you do if you have a bubble(s) coming out of the top. Like you said you clean the area around the top fill hole and clean the needle, also. To my defense it has been so long that I have had a bubble coming from the top fill hole I completely forget that you need to clean the hole and the needle.

One can, if one is not careful, cover the hole with ink before inserting the needle. It takes practice (self-control) to not squeeze the bottle until the needle is inside the reservoir. Also, you should stop squeezing the bottle before removing the needle from the reservoir.

I guess one could ASSUME that a person would clean around the hole and clean the needle. I have learned that you should not assume anything. One should not skip a detail even if you think the detail is minor and/or you think the person would naturally know to perform the action (i.e. clean around the hole/needle).

Note: I have never experienced foam inside the reservoir. I guess I have been lucky!?!?

Thank you.

 

[Grandad35]

Note: I have never experienced foam inside the reservoir. I guess I have been lucky!?!?

I see this when I print multiple pages and then attempt an immediately refill. The foam is created by the air bubbling into the ink chamber as the ink is used, and it takes a while for the foam bubbles to collapse.

 

[MP640]

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1. The most important detail is how you hold the cart. You should hold in the horizontal position (like you see it in the printhead) from the time you remove the cart from the printhead to the time you place the cart into the printhead. The only time you do not have the cart in the horizontal position is when you are resetting the cart. It is O.K. to have the cart in the down position (i.e. fill hole in the down position). I would say 10 degrees from the horizontal would be acceptable. What is not O.K. is to have the cart in the up position (i.e. the fill hole in the up position). The problem with the up position is that you have an excellent chance of overfilling the cart.

...[/deleted]...

Joseph, I'm confused. What is the difference between horizontal position and up position. When the cart is in the horizontal position, as it is in the printer, the fill hole is in the up position. isn't it?