3rd Party dye ink fade Test...!

[Flying Scotsman]

I might be making the assumption here but is @celo saying that kitchen foil is better at preventing fading than all the other options that have been tested. ??

 

[Celso]

I am not an expert. I was surprised with the results obtained by "The Hat" with the laminated photo. I have learned from others that lamination is not a solution to the fading problem. However, it should (in theory at least) perform better than the naked one. My photo laminated with PVC film is still fine. It was printed 4 four months ago. I expect it to start to show fading signs sometime soon but so far it is holding well...

 

[Celso]

Anyway, I am now doing experiments with the Epson XP line in order to use pigment ink instead of dye. Bronzing is now the villain. However, if I could identify a good technique against the fading problem I would go back to the Canon.

 

[The Hat]

I was surprised with the results obtained by "The Hat" with the laminated photo.

All my tests were very destructive and not meant for a real or normal situation, they had full exposure to all the elements for 24/7, it was to show that it’s pointless to use dye inks in a high UV or ozone environment and expect them not to fade...

The tests were all concluded, but I still have left them in position and will post them here when 12 months has elapsed, if they survive...

I might try another test using one sheet of Sihl photo glossy paper and print two pictures side by side, one dye the other pigment and leave it in my car for the next 6 months...

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Anyway, I am now doing experiments with the Epson XP line in order to use pigment ink instead of dye. Bronzing is now the villain.

Which XP model are you testing here ? Pigment inks will improve the fading performance very much, and bronzing can be eliminated by a separate overprint with gloss opimizer with a separate cartridge for the black channel in B/W mode.
But if you want to get much better fade performance with dye inks your only choice would be to use the frequently discussed Fujifilm DL dye inks together with a premium - PE - glossy photo paper, the paper has tremendous impact onto the fade performance of dye inks as I have shown here https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...nks-and-alternatives.11841/page-5#post-102559

 

[videobruce]

Three questions;

1. Why is red affected so greatly?
2. How about Cannon ink, how does that compare?
3. Source of the ink used?

 

[John R]

@The Hat @Ink stained Fingers Thanks for the results. I haven't read through all the threads; it's nice to see that the results are consistent. It's a tedious experiment that doesn't get done enough. I did this test last year with all the various printers I have collected with unknown brands and types of ink. My conclusion was that the biggest contributor to the longevity of a dye print was paper coatings such as glossy, semi-gloss, or colorlok. Laminating film that blocks UV, such as [link] slowed fading on plain paper, but sometimes the semi-gloss paper faded even less. My tests did not include laminated glossy paper because that's silly. The weirdest observation (which I didn't test because I don't have a chemistry lab) is that it is possible one of the paper coatings broke down in UV (Staples Photo Matte) and reacted with the ink, screwing up the printout more than the actual ink fading would have by itself.

Also, UV fluorescent lamps that are used for OCA are not nearly as brutal as sunlight.

 

[The Hat]

I went ahead and printed off these 3 prints from the POW thread.
click to enlarge.
There are two photos of each print done in dye and pigment ink, the ones above are for display purposes only and are pigment inks...

They are printed on Sihl photo glossy 280 gm in dye and pigment inks and were overprinted with Satin Glop to give them all a good finish.

There are two sets of prints, one of these sets are now on the shelf in the back of my car and I intend leaving them there for at least six months, it won’t be a good environment for prints, they will be subjected to changes in temperature and everything found inside the atmosphere of the car.

I’ll post a new thread in the next year showing the results against the second set of prints that I on a shelf in my print den, the differences between the dye and pigment inks should be like chalk and cheese, I’ll also post a link to it here...
EDIT: The Results...
https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/test-prints-results.12497/

 

[ChengXirie]

the typical lamination process works with a glue between the paper and the film, and hot lamination works with heat to activate the glue, it could be that the glue reacts with the ink dyes, or the heat accelerates the process. I assume that your kitchen type film just adheres electrostatically to the paper and you can pull it off easily. There are several effects to consider, does the film filter and block the UV radiation and/or does it provide a barrier against ozone and other chemical agents or both ? And in which ratio ? So there are several variables in the game which may lead to different results depending on the circumstances.

What about Lignin ( Woodfibre)? As a photograph it may be relevant. Isn't the reason why these third party ink fading faster? Or Paper with some Lignin turns yellow faster

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

There are two major agents causing the fading - gaseous as ozone or formaldehyde or chemical out of cigarette smoke - and radiative effects - UV - from the sun or fluorrescent lamps. A protective layer like a gloss op. overprint or a spray can shield against ozone pretty well, or similar the swellable papers in test with a special coating. Filtering UV is pretty difficult - about none of these thin film materials, sprays or coating have a steep enough transmission curve within the 50 or so nm wavelength change from visible light to UV A . Since it is not easy to separate these effects it is easy for sprays to claim UV blockage but actually protect against ozone.
Better photo papers are PE based - a polyethylene film is bonded to the base (paper) carrier (on both sides), and the actual coating - mostly microporous - is applied on top of it - RC - resin coated - with some glue (resin) that it adheres to the PE film, so you find these terms RC and PE in some of the paper specs of different paper manufacturers. So it wouldn't make a difference for the ink fading effect if the paper base contains lignin, but it is correct that there are other variables in the overall fading game - the fading/yellowing of optical brighteners , the yellowing of the resin itself over a longer term and discolorations of the paper base which might shine through the PE film.There are quite a few more threads dealing with the details of fading dye inks - different brands - different papers, it has turned out that OEM inks - Claria Epson or Chromalife Canon - are the best in this respect , together with some Drylab/Surelab dye inks by Fujifilm or Epson which are to be considered as well as OEM inks in this context. When discussing these inks from the user perspective you always need to consider pricing and availability as a refill ink which make the Chromalife or Claria inks unaffordable. So fading is a pretty complex subject .