Has this happened to you ?

[pearlhouse]

Does your printer go thru a time out cycle where after a certain time the print head returns to its parking spot if you leave the lid open? While you are refilling the carts. Then to get the print head back where you can change the carts you must close the lid. This will activate a purging cleaning cycle with that old cart you installed an maybe cause a new problem before you can get your original refilled carts back in.

 

[The Hat]

Question: is it normal that there is underpressure in the sponge chamber? Occasionally, when I open up the refill hole of a cart that still has ink in the chamber; all ink gets sucked into the sponge.

If you’re getting under pressure in the sponge area that is a sure sign of an underperforming cartridge, you’re not getting the proper air flow between the top half of your cartridge and the bottom half resulting in ink starvation.

All dough the air maze may not be blocked in the cartridge the air still can’t get through the top sponge which then prevents the ink from exiting the outlet hole once a vacuum has built up.

When you purge your cartridge clean you’ll then need to use some sort of conditioner to bring both sponges back to good working condition again and this will then prevent this ink flow problem from re-occurring again.

There has been some occasions when I’ve had to purge the same cartridge several time just to get it back working properly again, because I was in too much of a hurry to do the purging properly in the first place..

 

[Tudor]

Question: is it normal that there is underpressure in the sponge chamber? Occasionally, when I open up the refill hole of a cart that still has ink in the chamber, all ink gets sucked into the sponge.

It's not under-pressure, it's the capillary action of the sponge. When the cartridge is used, only the lower sponge has ink in it, even if you have ink in the ink chamber. There is a balance between the capillary force of the sponge and the under-pressure in the ink chamber. When you remove the plug, the sponge is free to suck all the ink it can hold from the ink chamber. I think this is how a good cartridge should behave.

 

[The Hat]

I had much the same problem with one of my cartridges which I had to remove and cap with the orange clip because of ink starvation while attempting to print a recent photo.

I replaced the cartridge and all was well and the photo printed perfectly, but the cartridge I removed had all most ¾ of the reservoir still full of ink and when I removed the seal on the refill hole all of the ink was sucked into the sponge area.

Let’s just say if capillary action was solely responsible for this, then when the balance was restored equally between the two compartments, the ink should have flowed back into the reservoir stabilising both sides ?

I put my problem down to the top sponge being sealed air tight with old soiled dried ink that had been in the cartridge far too long and had turned into some sort of jelly like barrier preventing the normal exchange of air flow that should normally occur when the ink is drawn out through the outlet by the print head.

I may have gotten this whole thing wrong as to what was responsible for the poor performance of my cartridge but until I know for certain then your explanation may well be as right as mine, who am I to judge and at this stage we both could be very wrong indeed !

 

[PeterBJ]

I see two possible causes for the problem.

Either an air lock prevents the capillary action thus starving the lower sponge of ink, but the risk of an airlock forming is low when cartridges are top filled. There is a higher risk of an airlock forming when using the German refill method. This is the reason to maintain pressure on the syringe or squeeze bottle when withdrawing the needle so an important ink bridge between the ink chamber and the sponge chamber is re-established. When injecting ink into the ink chamber when doing a German method refill, escaping air breaks down this important ink bridge, and it must be re-established, or the cartridge will fail.

Or air cannot enter the ink chamber to replace ink needed by the sponge. This could be caused by a clogged upper sponge. In use there is a slight vacuum in the ink chamber, balancing the suction caused by the capillary force from the lower sponge. When the sponge is becoming depleted of ink, I think the capillary force increases and draws ink out from the ink chamber. If air cannot enter the ink chamber through the sponges, the lower sponge cannot draw ink from the ink chamber. Removing the filler plug removed the slight vacuum in the ink chamber and ink was fed to the sponge partly by capillary action, and partly by gravity feed, the gravity feed will probably cause the cartridge to drip after the plug is put back in place. This fix will only be temporary, as the problem will return next time the sponge needs ink.

This makes me think clogged sponges are indeed the cause of the problem, and purging is the cure. I've seen various recommendations for how often a cartridge should be purged, from a purge every 3-4 refills to never. The necessity to purge might depend on both refill technique and storage time for the refilled cartridges.

You can compare the ink chamber to a chicken water feeder. A slight vacuum holds the water in place. If an air leak occurs in the top of the water tank, water will leak out.

For the function of a Canon cartridge see this excellent work containing many photos, by mikling, it is downloadable as a rar archive from mediafire, the link to the download is still active. Link to post here: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/do-i-have-a-problem-with-dry-sponges.6058/page-7#post-45172

 

[stratman]

I am a convert to the Jimbo method of printer operation by happenstance.

I used to keep a second set of cartridges filled and ready for use. Then I converted them to run Windex when I had a print head problem a couple years ago. I never used the second set of cartridges again, the Windex long ago dried up inside the cartridges, and now only use one set and refill all on the fly when one goes to empty per the printer's warning.

The cartridges' ages range between two or three for the pigment black PGI-5 and up to to six years old for the CLI-8's. I have not purged a cartridge in well over 2 years either, definitely not since using only one set of cartridges. Also, the sponges no longer have a white area on top and at least some of them have had ink saturate all the way up on refilling. I have even had the Cyan drip ink from the Durchstich hole and seen ink above the sponge on refill, possibly from what we would consider a stiff sponge in need of flushing. Squeezing the cartridge to remove excess ink, blowing through the top vent hole, and/or letting the cartridge sit upright on the ledge of the sink (as during the resting phase between primary and secondary fillings in the Durchstich method) resolves the excess ink issue. The cartridges keep going and going like the Energizer (batttery) Bunny.

I do not print every day but generally do print something at least once a week. I have not printed a proper photo on photo paper in a few months but all images and text on plain paper are as expected. I do an occasional nozzle check and they have been good.

So, the Jimbo method works for me with my MP830, which also happens to be Jimbo's printer! Could it be this printer model is more robust for refilling, or, did Jimbo and I find Ponce de Leon's Fountain of Youth printer/refilling method combination?

 

[jimbo123]

nice to hear that the "Jimbo method" or the "Lazy method" is being practiced elsewhere with great success. stratman's MP830 refill experiences are close or better than mine. most of my CLI8s are original and over 6 years old.

re "Ponce De Leon" ref, i started using an MP980 5 months ago for mostly color printing. the MP980 uses 1 PGI220 and 5 CLI221's, i am up to 74 total refills, all original carts.

also my daughter has an MP830 and an MX870, each probably 4-5 years old, both printers still using the original carts, same refill method as i use.

she keeps waiting for something not to work with refilling, as stratman said, it keeps going and going. oh, her friends now come over to her house to print, too funny.

my daughter will get a kick out the "Jimbo method" reference.

maybe there is something to this method.

J

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• Printers: Canon MP830, IP4500, MX700, MX860, MX870, MP980
• Method: German Durchstich Method
• Ink: Hobbicolors and OCP
• Misc: Squeeze bottles - so much easier than syringes

 

[PeterBJ]

So you have had no ink flow problems with the PGI-220/CLI-221 cartridges refilled using the German method and squeeze bottles with possibly blunt needles?

I have had problems with these newer cartridges refilled using the German method and squeeze bottles with 2" 21g sharp needles. I suspect the problems could be caused by needle damage to the sponges. I've tried blunt needles but found them harder to insert into the cartridge. Strangely enough the same approach with the sharp needles causes no problems with the older transparent cartridges. I have fewer problems with the newer cartridges after changing to top filling them, but they still occasionally need flushing.

I have started wondering if the blunt needles are better for the German method as they probably don't cut the fibres in the sponge, but push them aside?

I read somewhere on the forum about a special needle with a tip like a sewing needle and side holes behind the tip. Maybe a such needle would be ideal for the German method?

But maybe my problems were caused by storing refilled cartridges too long or in an open box? If so the refill method is less important than storage time and conditions.

 

[The Hat]

@jimbo123

Well I reckon your stuck with it now, from hence forward the lazy refill method (Which Works !) will be known as Jimbo’s Ponce De Leon method.
A bit of a mouthful but we’ll get use to it.
@stratman sure can dream them up..

 

[jimbo123]

so far no ink flow issues with my PGI220/CLI221's, again only 5 months in.

re the sharp/blunt needle issue. here's what works for us:
- drill the cart
- use 1" sharp needle to push through sponge to create a pilot hole for blunt needle
- use 2" blunt 18g needle to push/twist further to reach the reservoir to refill

we have noticed that the PGI5/CLI8's are much nicer/easier to refill compared to the PGI220/CLI221's, holds more ink, can see sponge, etc.

my daughter uses her MP830 very heavily each Fall for some business printing, she runs it 18 hours a day for a week straight, often refilling every hour. she calls her MP830 "the beast".

the "Jimbo method", reference made my daughter laugh. she said only you, being lazy could find a way to make it work smarter/better.

made me chuckle

J

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• Printers: Canon MP830, IP4500, MX700, MX860, MX870, MP980
• Method: German Durchstich Method
• Ink: Hobbicolors and OCP
• Misc: Squeeze bottles - so much easier than syringes