was wondering what have others done when 100% ink/waste pad is reached

[jimbo123]

nearing 80% ink/waste pad usage in my 2 year old MP830, got about 4-5 months until i hit 100%

couple options come to mind when 100% is reached:

1. perform surgery and replace with new pads and reset
2. perform surgery and replace with rinsed out old pads and reset
3. take to canon service center to have pads replaced and reset
4. put this MP830 out to pasture and bring in a backup MP830
5. place pan/pad under printer, reset and keep an eye on the pan for ink leakage
6. fly blind.... reset and keep printing

was wondering what have others done when 100% ink/waste pad is reached

TIA,

J

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Printers: Canon Pixma MP830, IP4500, MP830(new spare in box)
Method: German Durchstich Method using Canon Cartridges
Ink: Hobbicolors, great guy to deal with
Misc: Squeeze bottles, needles, scabbards from Howard Electronics

 

[pharmacist]

From what I have epxerienced and heard from others, you can actually reset the waste ink tank and continue to the next warning about waste ink tank full, but take care: after that you will need to change the waste pads or you will risk the printer will flood over with ink. Three times and you will be inundated with ink and you will risk a meshy desk. I think it should be possible to redirect the waste ink tube outside the printer.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Several months ago, my MP760 warned of the waste ink tank getting full. I simply reset it and continued (your option 6).

It wasn't too long after that, that I damaged my printer by swapping in a bad print head that I had cleaned outside the printer and didn't wait two days for it to dry (just because I offer good advice doesn't mean I follow it myself). So I took my printer to a repair shop. Later I noticed a puddle of black ink where the printer had been. After the repair shop wanted too much to repair the printer, I paid them $30 to get my printer back (because I needed the scanner) and took my printer apart to see how full the waste pads really were. Well, they were saturated with ink and the place where the purge pump dumps the ink was full of gunky thick black ink which was overflowing its boundaries. I also tried to clean the pads. I don't care how much new ones cost, it's better than cleaning. Websnail calls these pads diapers. Think about cleaning disposable diapers. You don't want to do that. Also, because I had no intention of putting the printer back together, it was a lot easier to get to the waste pads. I really don't think I would want to consider replacing the pads myself.

EDIT: I have changed my mind about replacing the waste ink absorber pads--I have done it on several MP760/780's. It takes 2 or 3 hours, depending on how many other things I want to clean while the printer is all apart. Here are the detailed instructions on how to do this.

So....at a minimum I would recommend option 5. Depending on the cost, you could do option 3. The other options I would not recommend.

Of course, this only applies to the MP7XX printers, I have no idea if other printers would have similar characteristics.

Websnail sells external tanks for taking the waste ink. On my MP760, there are several layers of waste pads but where the tubes from the purge pump dumps the ink there are holes in the layers of pads forming a sort of "well" to allow the ink to be absorbed by the layers of pads. If you knew exactly where to drill a hole in the bottom of the printer, it should be fairly easy to attach extension tubes and direct the ink to an external tank.

In fact, you just gave me an idea for my new MP760 that I recently took out of its box to replace my damaged one. Now that I know exactly where to drill the hole, I think I will see about installing an external waste tank. That would be option 7. It would be a real mess to have tried this on my first printer after it gave me the waste ink tank full warning, but on a relatively new printer, it should be fairly clean.

EDIT: I have given up on this idea too. I tried it but it isn't worth the trouble. Instead, I recommend replacing the waste ink absorber pads when they get full. You can read about my experience here.

 

[websnail]

Just wanted to note that Multifunctionals are a world of hurt away from the equivalent "printer only" versions like the iP4300 (the printer base for the MP830).

IMHO I would consider locating a suitable point (through the VERY careful and patient use of a service manual) and drill a small test hole to test the location is correct (ie: you get the waste pads) and then a larger hole before placing the printer over a drip tray so the pads could drop their overspill into the tray. It's a hack but if you do it properly it's MUCH simpler than potentially wrecking the printer innards trying to disassemble and then reassemble the printer.

To put it another way... I have NO intention of selling external tanks for ANY multifunction printer unless I discover they are easier to disassemble than previous efforts found... I doubt that will happen.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I know exactly where to make a hole in the bottom piece of plastic of the printer without disassembling my new MP760 because I took apart my old MP760. And I know that there will be no pad material in the way when I make the hole. And I know what size tubing to attach to the two purge pump outlet ports. What I don't know is where you feed those two extension tubes to make a decent exernal waste tank. I suppose I could just put my printer up on blocks and put a jar under it to collect the waste ink. That would work but I'm sure you have something more elegant or something that would be less prone to accidental spilling.

I'm wondering, are your external tanks designed to be emptied very often because I would hate to have the external tank overflow?

 

[websnail]

I know exactly where to make a hole in the bottom piece of plastic of the printer without disassembling my new MP760 because I took apart my old MP760. And I know that there will be no pad material in the way when I make the hole. And I know what size tubing to attach to the two purge pump outlet ports. What I don't know is where you feed those two extension tubes to make a decent exernal waste tank.

Not sure what you mean by that last... If you could provide some pics and/or some description of what you mean it'll help me understand and hopefully answer the question.

I suppose I could just put my printer up on blocks and put a jar under it to collect the waste ink. That would work but I'm sure you have something more elegant or something that would be less prone to accidental spilling.

Agreed... but when it comes to practicality it's the best option... I am looking for a suitable collection funnel or fitting but so far not found anything...

I'm wondering, are your external tanks designed to be emptied very often because I would hate to have the external tank overflow?

With the Canon they wouldn't need to be emptied a great deal at all due to the low waste ink volume purged (unless you go all out on deep cleans obviously). I'd envisage the 180ml box being more than enough for about 3+ months under normal use.

 

[ghwellsjr]

If I ran two tubes out the bottom of my printer just below the purge pump, what would be the elegant way to feed them to an external waste tank? Are you suggesting that a box is best? Is this something you sell that normally goes under a printer? Do you just let the tubes dangle from the bottom of the printer and feed directly into the box?

But are you saying that my idea of a jar would be the practical solution, just as good as an elegant solution?

I don't understand what you are asking regarding a suitable collection funnel or fitting. Are you thinking that one solution would be to cut a hole in the bottom of the printer without extending the tubing coming from the purge pump and use a funnel to guide the waste ink into a tank? And are you thinking that another solution would be to use a fitting instead that would connect to the existing tubing? Are you saying you haven't found a suitable solution for either one of these ideas yet?

Here's my idea, and it's only an idea because I have not actually tried this on my working MP760: On my broken and dismantled MP760, I have removed the purge pump and I can see the two tubes that eject the waste ink. I have some other tubing that is almost the right diameter to slip over those two tubes but it is slightly too small. I took a short piece of this tubing and ran hot water over it. I took some long nose pliers and inserted them into the tubing and opened up the pliers to expand the inside diameter of the tubing. Then I pressed the tubing on to one of the purge pump tubes about 3/16 inch. It creates a nice snug fit which I think is permanent enough to be a reliable fitting.

If I understand your idea of a collection funnel, I don't think it would be reliable because although one of the tubes coming out of the purge pump points straight down, the other one is purposely directed at an angle. Chances are, that one would eject the ink directly on the inside of the plastic and there is a chance the ink would flow across the bottom of the printer instead of falling down into a collection funnel. But I think my poor-man's press fit fitting would work and not require any special fitting. It would be rather difficult to attach any kind of fitting through the small hole (1/2" x 3/4") in the bottom of the printer but it shouldn't be too hard to press the external tubing on to the existing tubing.

Ok, so if I did this on my new MP760 I would have two of these pieces of tubing sticking out of the bottom of my printer and every time I did a cleaning, some ink would be ejected out of them. I looked on your website but did not see any products for Canon printers. I did see a picture of a printer with tubing coming out of the back of it going to a "flat" flexible bag like a bladder. If I were to use something like that, I would still have to raise my printer up maybe an inch and I'd have to use tubing that was at least a foot long. So I'm asking if that would be an elegant solution or do you have a better idea? Or should I just raise my printer up even higher and put a jar under the two short tubes?

 

[websnail]

If I ran two tubes out the bottom of my printer just below the purge pump, what would be the elegant way to feed them to an external waste tank? Are you suggesting that a box is best? Is this something you sell that normally goes under a printer? Do you just let the tubes dangle from the bottom of the printer and feed directly into the box?

But are you saying that my idea of a jar would be the practical solution, just as good as an elegant solution?

Right... Reviewing my earlier posts I've realised I didn't make something clear enough so here goes..

The location I was thinking of for the hole was NOT under the actual waste tubes themselves. It's probably possible but I'd be concerned about hitting a vital circuit board, pushing the drill too far up and hitting the pump itself or something else equally catastrophic. That said, a properly equipped drill with a depth gauge (ie: the rod that sticks forward and stops you at a set point) would help on some of this. The rest would really come down to a very specific knowledge of the waste pump location.

What I originally thought was to locate a point under the actual waste padding itself, preferably one in the middle of a large area of padding, away from any circuit boards, or critical parts, and drilling up into this area. If you get the spot right and it should then be possible to cut a larger hole around this area about an inch in diameter that would allow ink from the pads to drip down into a drip tray.

The reason for this strategy was:
a) As I said you avoid a mistake and drill through something vital in the area of the pump
b) The waste pads act as a buffer so you don't get ink jetting down and spraying everywhere

I was going to say you could also easily seal up the hole again with some plastic and a good strong plastic glue but that's as easy on both...

It's not perfect and it's a theory so really I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on this before anyone smacks me about the head with their opinion... (or mine)

I don't understand what you are asking regarding a suitable collection funnel or fitting. Are you thinking that one solution would be to cut a hole in the bottom of the printer without extending the tubing coming from the purge pump and use a funnel to guide the waste ink into a tank? And are you thinking that another solution would be to use a fitting instead that would connect to the existing tubing?

The problem with drilling into the area where the pump and the existing waste tubes are located is that:
a) the tubes themselves are VERY short
b) extending the tubes without cutting away a large area of case (and potentially damaging something important in this area) would be very difficult
c) it's a lot of work...

So on this basis I do believe that cutting a hole under the pads (or the tubes) and finding some kind of low profile funnel (hard to explain what I'm thinking so just assume something like this:

Are you saying you haven't found a suitable solution for either one of these ideas yet?

Ok... What I've suggested are ideas... To date I'm not convinced that waste kits for Canon Multifunctionals are a viable commercial proposition because they involve tools, patience and more steps than all but the most enthusiastic amateur would want to consider. With proper dedicated time for research and/or development short I've let these thoughts percolate through my brain when I have a few hours holding a colicky baby or can't sleep.

Here's my idea, and it's only an idea because I have not actually tried this on my working MP760: On my broken and dismantled MP760, I have removed the purge pump and I can see the two tubes that eject the waste ink. I have some other tubing that is almost the right diameter to slip over those two tubes but it is slightly too small. I took a short piece of this tubing and ran hot water over it. I took some long nose pliers and inserted them into the tubing and opened up the pliers to expand the inside diameter of the tubing. Then I pressed the tubing on to one of the purge pump tubes about 3/16 inch. It creates a nice snug fit which I think is permanent enough to be a reliable fitting.

Right... Just to critique your idea... Whilst I see your point you're forgetting one very important thing... You took the pump out of your printer and have all the space you want to work in. Drilling up into the case does not provide you (or anyone else) with anything like the same amount of space and there's also virtually nothing that would provide resistance for an extension tube to be slipped up over the original in either instance. I'd consider some kind of barbed connected personally but the same lack of resistance to allow the connector to be pushed home still exists.

If I understand your idea of a collection funnel, I don't think it would be reliable because although one of the tubes coming out of the purge pump points straight down, the other one is purposely directed at an angle. Chances are, that one would egect the ink directly on the inside of the plastic and there is a chance the ink would flow across the bottom of the printer instead of falling down into a collection funnel.

I agree in part the ink will indeed flow elsewhere but the point is that the idea I had wasn't to redirect the waste directly or cut the existing pads out of the equation but instead use the saturation point to our advantage. The pads will release the ink to allow it to flow out of a hole in the base of the printer if it's big enough.

But I think my poor-man's press fit fitting would work and not require any special fitting. It would be rather difficult to attach any kind of fitting through the small hole (1/2" x 3/4") in the bottom of the printer but it shouldn't be too hard to press the external tubing on to the existing tubing.

As I said I disagree for the reason stated above re: lack of space.

I looked on your website but did not see any products for Canon printers.

That's because I'm still trying to find time to write the guide for the iP4200... 50+ pictures and a lot of important points/tips to cover is taking its time.

I did see a picture of a printer with tubing coming out of the back of it going to a "flat" flexible bag like a bladder. If I were to use something like that, I would still have to raise my printer up maybe an inch and I'd have to use tubing that was at least a foot long. So I'm asking if that would be an elegant solution or do you have a better idea? Or should I just raise my printer up even higher and put a jar under the two short tubes?

Any waste kit that doesn't have a closed loop running from the pump to a tank (ie: tubes extended from the originals) is going to require the printer to be raised and certainly a drip tray would too... Not ideal really but then neither are the alternatives...




I know what you're saying about your own ideas with the MP760 and I take your points... As I probably haven't made clear, I'm still debating about whether or not to produce kits for the Canons and I can tell you now that if I do, I will NOT be recommending them for anyone with no technical skills or patience. It'll be enthusiastic printer owners only..

Once I've written up the iP4200 guide properly you'll be able to see what I have put together a bit better along with a more graphic demonstration of the clutter in just a simple printer...

To put it anyone way...
- Epson C86 requires about 16 pictures for releasing a case part, accessing the waste tube, modifying the case, extending the tube, replacing the case.
- Canon iP4200 requires about 50 pictures for releasing the case top, removing the power supply, lifting the printer chassis out of the base, locating the waste tubes, modifying the case, extending the tubing, replacing the chassis, replacing the PSU, refitting the CD tray jacks, replacing the front panels, and replacing the case...


If you've got some pics of your foray into the MP760 that'd probably help too.. then those wondering what on earth this is all about can clue themselves in

Cheers,

Martin

 

[fotofreek]

For those who print lots of borderless photos there is the issue of the overspray going into the waste ink area as well. The majority of fluid would be coming from the purge pumps. Is the overspray so insignificant as to ignore it?

 

[ghwellsjr]

I put my broken MP760 back together so I could see what it would be like to work on my new MP760. I took lots of pictures and I plan to upload them with explanation when I get more time.

I drilled starter holes through the bottom of the upside down printer in three adjacent locations. There is no electronics in this area and the purge pump tubes are 7/8 inch above the bottom of the printer so it's not hard to avoid them. One of my starter holes contacted the edge of a waste pad, but no big deal, now that I know that, I will not drill another starter hole in that area.

Next I cut out a rectangular hole to match the hole in the pads that go down to bare plastic. Then I fit two short extension tubes onto the two tubes coming out of the purge pump. They provide a decent fit but if I do this on a working printer, I think I might glue them to the side of the hole to keep them from falling out.

The issue of the overspray is different from the issue with the purge pump waste. The purge pump waste is deposted in the bottom of the printer through holes in the waste pads. It then has to soak up into the waste pads. On the other hand, the overspray is deposited directly on to the top layer of waste pads and is allowed to soak down to all the other layers of pads. The soaking from two different directions can compete but clearly eliminating one of them will greatly lengthen the life of the other one. Extending the purge pump tubes will totally eliminate any soaking of the waste pads from that source.

After going through this exercise on my broken MP760, I am now wondering if it really isn't all that difficult to remove the printer from its plastic base to replace the pads. When I did this the first time without understanding how everything came apart, I disconnected all the cables from the vertical electronics board along the right side of the printer. This greatly adds to the difficulty of getting it all back together. I think now I could take out all the screws holding the different metal chassis printer parts to the plastic base and lift it all up, exposing the waste pads.

I think, actually I'm sure, that I prematurely brought on the overflow of my waste pads because I had done a lot of cleaning cycles on about 17 refilled pigment black cartridges that would not flow properly in a futile attempt to resurrect them and because I was dumping a lot of Windex on my purge pads to avoid the potential problem that I had with MP780 printers where the purge pump system was getting clogged.

So now I'm facing the following decision:
1) Don't do anything to my new MP760 and let it work as designed until many years from now I get a waste full message at which point I could replace the pads and/or swap bases.
2) Take apart my new MP760 and replace its base with the one from my old MP760 that already has a hole in the bottom to extend the purge pump tubes.
3) Cut a hole in my new MP760 to extend the purge pump tubes.

The problem with option 2 is that it is bringing to the present the future hassle of option 1.
The problem with option 3 is that it doesn't allow me the benefit of having two bases, one with a hole and one without.
So since I love to procrastinate, I'll probably end up with option 1.

But, since I have to swap the scanner from my old MP760 (due to the styrofoam in the packing material depositing a film of debris inside the glass on the new MP760) and to do that I have to take off both sides and then the scanner, I may just go ahead and remove all the screws and see if the guts lift right off the base (option2).