The differences between the PGI-9 & CLI-8 Cartridges explained

[The Hat]

this is for those of you who might be interested in the different make up of the PGI-9 to the CLI-8 cartridges.
The CLI-8 cartridge uses mainly dye inks and the PGI-9 cartridge are only for pigment inks,
also the BK black and grey chips cannot be reset as all.

The outlet hole is about three times larger than that of CLI-8s but the sponge inside is made of a softer material and is only 1/16th inch thick.
Behind the sponge there are an array of six grooved ridges that lead along a channel up into the cartridge
by way of three very small holes no bigger than a 22 gauge needle.

This cartridge design makes it much harder to clog up despite using pigment ink and it will never need purging either.
There are other differences on the inside as well that were explained earlier on another thread and it can be found
here with picture..

 

[jtoolman]

I've been told these can be drilled fro refilling on the underside BUT the location of the hole has to be presicely located OR ELSE!!!! According to that source, yoou refill, weighing it is you desire and then plug the resulting small hole with hot glue till the next refill.
I know these can also be dripped refilled but that can take a while and some patience is needed. I can get single use chips for the PK and GY carts at $2.50 a piece and reset the others.
Is there a proven refill method for these yet? I am recieving a PRO 9500 MKII this Thursday and cant wait to begin working with this printer. Mikling and Inkjetcarts both sell Image Specialists inks for it.
I will mostly be printing on fine art papers and by prints will be about 50/50 color and B&W.

 

[The Hat]

jtoolman I've been told these can be drilled fro refilling on the underside BUT the location of the hole has to be presicely located OR ELSE!!!!
According to that source, yoou refill, weighing it is you desire and then plug the resulting small hole with hot glue till the next refill.

Here is the picture with the drill hole location marked, if you decide to use this method please remember to only drill to a depth of 3mm.

You can use the drip method also when you have the hole in the bottom and it only takes about a minute to fill the cartridge
but remember to seal up the hole when finished

 

[mikling]

Here are two methods that have worked so far without any drilling.... YMMV.

To allow the drip method to work more effectively, when refilling, slightly tilt the tank so that the nozzle outlet is slightly higher, around 10 -15 degrees will do it. Dribble from the top and let the ink stream down the pad. You'll be suprised how fast the ink enters and gets into tank. If you look at the Hat's picture, you'll also want to tilt the cartridge away from you slightly... a teeny bit. The reason is obvious when you study the first picture. Actually, the Hat's picture reveals why I found the tilt to work better than when the cartridge is kept horizontal.

With this slant, I can fill the tank with a near continuous gentle stream with a 20 gauge needle. Towards the last 1 ml, the absorption rate slows. At this point, you slow down and put the cartridge back down so it is no longer tilted and then let it dribble to fill. I let it dribble until the ink pools a bit at the top and then disappears.

At this point, I squeeze the sides of the cartridge very gently and let the ink come back up a bit and use the needle to suck up the excess. At this point, we are finished and we can replace the orange cover or reinstall. The reason for the last squeeze step is that it prevents the cartridge from leaking due to handling when installing etc. During handling you will inevitable squeeze the sides a bit. If it is too full, the ink will drip out when you squeeze the sides. This is similar to the techniques employed with the old HP45/15 cartridges with a bladder and spring arrangement.

I consistently get between 32.5 and 33 grams finished weight without the orange cover and no leaks when handling. With this method, I would say a precision scale might not be required.

If you want to use the orange cover and use a pressure fill. Here's how to do it with simple tools for refilling _ The Canadian Method. Take the orange cover, and look at the rubber side. You will see a concave dimple inside around the middle. Use a push pin and pierce the pad and orange plastic cover at the bottom of the dimple. Now locate a 20 gauge blunt needle. We are going to enter the orange cover side and pierce through the silicone rubber. Enlarge the hole on the orange cover side if necessary to allow the needle to enter.
The other thing we need to do is limit the entry of the needle. There are two ways to do this. One way is to take a miniature cutoff wheel and shorten the needle to around 1/8". This way when the needle hits the orange cover it only enters around 1/8" or so and does not damage the pad on the cartridge. Test it on the orange cover so that the needle enters the cover and does not protrude beyond the rubber pad. Ideally it just enters the dome on top and no more.

The other way to limit entry is to use an outer sleeve around the needle. so that when the needle enters the cover it can only go to a depth of around 1/8" or so. See what you have lying around. Old ballpoint pen refills come to mind as suitable sleeves. Again trim the sleeve so that the needle enters no more than the top of the dome.

The silicone rubber pad provides sufficient seal around the needle to allow this to work well.

So to fill the cartridges, just fill the syringe and then stick it through the hole on the orange cover and fill away. This method requires no gluing etc. and works well. Nothing really to contruct.

Again the drawback is that when it is too full, as the Hat discovered, you can get some drops of ink spilling a bit...but it is FAST.

Perhaps a hybrid method of pressure fill and dribble at the end is the best method id speed is a requirement. That is, Use the pressure first and then use the dribble method for the last 1-2 ml and use the gentle squeeze mop up to allow no drips when handling.

Sometimes slow and steady is all that is required. I must be getting old because I prefer the slow method...there is never any messes and it looks like no scale is required but time will tell if this is really the case.

 

[jtoolman]

So I can either drip ink through into the hole or directly on top of the ink exit port sponge? Can I inject ink directly into the drilled hole if I insert the needle only a few mm? Either way it seems like it should not be too difficult.

It looks like I should buy a second set of OEM carts. Amazon has a good deal on a full set for $118

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PGI-9-V...BEFE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314568486&sr=8-1

That was I can prepare a set and have it on standby.

 

[mikling]

Keep your eyes on my store for real Canon PGI-9s. Coming soon.

Why bother drilling and potentially compromise the tank?

 

[jtoolman]

You are right. I really fell very uneasy about drilling these. The methods you've described sound very efficient to me and I will more than like stick with them. I will keep looking at your store for updates. Will order a set of inks probably next week. What are you doing about the PK and GY reset problem? Are you disabling those two carts from the ink monitor system?

 

[mikling]

I guess there are three alternatives until a real solution arrives. You could just buy Canon carts for these two colors. You could get one time chips for these but eventually that could be a pain swapping in and out. You could just live with the monitor disabled... and this could be be a small issue depending on your use.

Maybe The Hat, who has used this printer on a real world extended basis can give us some wise words on how he deals with the issue. The Gray especially.

There could be a simple solution to all of this. For example, if based on real world use, we find PhotoCyan runs out the fastest before any other color, then the solution is simple. We refill ALL the cartridges whenever the PhotoCyan runs out. Remember we all KNOW that replacing ALL the cartridges when a single changeout is called for is the best way to go. So even if we got a correct reading on the Gray and Photo Black, then it wouldn't matter, we'd want to change them out too. What I havent't determined yet is whether the 9500 can selectively prime by banks. Anyone care to chime in on this?
Based on my experience, black hardly ever runs out first before the Photo Cyan and Photo Magenta. So again, the issue of having a disabled Photo black is in reality might be completely liveable when you run through the logic.

If you use this printer for a lot of B&W then this could be an issue but I suspect many would just top off the cartridges after a certain number of prints and live with it. I could be wrong. Comments and experiences are certainly welcomed in brainstorming this out.

 

[jtoolman]

I am running Auto Reset Chips on my Epson refillables. The kind that reset after they read empty, and what I do is refill / top off everything when any single color reads empty. I am really anal about that. So I would think that disabling the Blacks would not really be a problem at least with my current work flow. I would be printing 50/50 color and B&W on fine art papers only. I will be getting a second set of carts to always have one set ready to go. I have three sets of carts for my PRO 9000 and I just change than as a set when needed. Minimizes charging cycles.
I do have a question about the Red and Green colors though! What paper settings use those two colors. I notice on my PRO 9000 MKII they show no drop at all.

 

[mikling]

I've been messing with the PGI-5 and CLI-8 resetter that I carry. I have had to modify the body of the resetter by routing out part of the body to allow the long outlet of the PGI-9 to fit and then creating a slot so that the round knob on the bottom of the PGI_9 can slide down properly. If you don't have that slot, the chips don't make proper contact with the resetter pins.
These physical mods allow the tank to slide down and contact the contact pins like a CLI-8.

I will have to test it properly before I confirm it does the trick for the 8 colors. It registers a proper reset thus far for 8 colors but you never know. It does nothing for the PhotoBlack and nothing for the Gray. I will not confirm 100% it is perfect yet, but it has model numbers somewhere similar to what The HAT described so it's looking good so far.