Prints outdoors - laminate or not using pigment or dye?

[nate128]

I'm tying to figure out what type of printer to go with but have a few questions about making sure my prints last at least 1 year outdoors with no fading.

First, Pigment Inks: I've been doing tons of research and quickly learned on here that pigment ink is preferred when you know that your material will be exposed to UV light. But I'm unsure whether an over-laminate is still needed or not. Would print colors last for at least 1 year without over-laminate? I'll be printing on waterproof material.

Dye Based Inks: I've seen members on here show terrible fading on their dye based prints after weeks or months, even with their print being laminated. However, I don't see a mention of whether their laminate had UV protection or not. Will this happen if I were to still use an over-laminate with UV protection?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

What are your outdoor conditons for the print(s) you are planning to place there ? Rain or sun ? What format ? Are the prints protected somehow - e.g. under glass ? And there is another critical agent as critical as UV - ozone , and lamination may protect more against ozone than UV. You may even go a step further and use solvent inks, you can use spray coatings , so there is no clear answer possible without further info.

 

[nate128]

The prints will be stickers. So bumper stickers, window stickers, basically anywhere they can be stuck outside. So it will be exposed to harsh conditions. I'm hoping to print on glossy vinyl (which claim the prints are waterproof and reviews seem good) and NOT have to laminate if the print lasts for at least a year if that's possible. Unfortunately testing and waiting that long is obviously too long.

Ink Stained Fingers...I came across a post from you stating that pigment inks don't have the risk of fading under harsh conditions: https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/no-difference-in-my-pigment-ink-fade-test.9737/

Has your opinion changed?

Solvent inks unfortunately seem out of the question at this moment. Unless there are small "entry level" home printers that take solvent inks.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Fading tests done in various threads don't specifically test for those harsh conditions you are referrring to, outside exposure is just used to accelerate the test. All these inks - dye or pigment - are primarily used for prints displayed indoors or outdoors with additional protection like under glass. You need a printer for (eco) solvent inks for PVC etc base material for good overall durability - look how car wraps are printed - o.k. - they have a larger format than what you need but the printing method should be the same. There are offers on Aliexpress to convert regular Epson printers for use with solvent ink, but it's not just the printing but maintenance is critical as well - you won't recover from a clogged printhead...
Sure you can use an Epson Workforce printer with Durabrite pigment inks and print on decal foils or PVC labels which are available for inkjet printing but I'm afraid you won't reach a year of durability this way. And since you mention bumper stickers and alike another question comes up whether you would need white ink as well, that is not available on regular inkjet printers.

You might nevertheless look to the stickers and labels of this company
https://www.papilio.com/catalog/Papilio_Catalog_Decal_Paper.pdf (There may be other suppliers with similar products
in your home country)

and go from there and test some of their products whether it comes close enough to your intentions.

 

[nate128]

Ok it's all making sense. It's looking like I should just accept that going with a laminate is the best way if using a non-solvent printer. I would assume regular over-laminate would help with some of the conditions like ozone, rain, and snow. But as far as UV, would you say any over-laminate would work or would I have to specifically get one that mentions UV protection?

Thanks for all your help. I'm truthfully just going through a hard time and trying to make some side money right now. I unfortunately can't do months of testing to see the longevity of my prints and definitely would hate to give people a product that quickly discolors.

 

[berttheghost]

Ok it's all making sense. It's looking like I should just accept that going with a laminate is the best way if using a non-solvent printer. I would assume regular over-laminate would help with some of the conditions like ozone, rain, and snow. But as far as UV, would you say any over-laminate would work or would I have to specifically get one that mentions UV protection?

Thanks for all your help. I'm truthfully just going through a hard time and trying to make some side money right now. I unfortunately can't do months of testing to see the longevity of my prints and definitely would hate to give people a product that quickly discolors.

Sorry, but most of the test results for laminates (and protective coatings as well) wrt UV and gas (ozone/oxygen) resistance have meen negative. Some do work, but most don't. Same for pigment inks, for that matter. Some are excellent, many are ok, and some are simply awful. So simply choosing an arbitrary pigment ink and pairing it with an arbitrary laminate coating isn't likely to go well.

 

[The Hat]

Just use good quality Vinyl stickers and OEM pigment inks and they should last a couple of years in the open air, laminating wont work because the laminate itself will peel off and take the ink with it.

I have used Papilio Vinyl and decals with 3rd party pigment inks, and I was happy with the longevity and quality of their products, just read and follow their instruction on environment conditions...
O' Papilio products are not cheap, but they do have sample packs...

 

[Adriatix]

I'm tying to figure out what type of printer to go with but have a few questions about making sure my prints last at least 1 year outdoors with no fading.

First, Pigment Inks: I've been doing tons of research and quickly learned on here that pigment ink is preferred when you know that your material will be exposed to UV light. But I'm unsure whether an over-laminate is still needed or not. Would print colors last for at least 1 year without over-laminate? I'll be printing on waterproof material.

Dye Based Inks: I've seen members on here show terrible fading on their dye based prints after weeks or months, even with their print being laminated. However, I don't see a mention of whether their laminate had UV protection or not. Will this happen if I were to still use an over-laminate with UV protection?

Sorry because I not able really to help you since this product is not available world wide. But this is what you may be looking for. It is simple and inexpensive substitution for Eco solvent Roland and similar printers.

This particular sample is printed on car warping foil for Eco solvent LF printers on Epson SX 600 +A+ B inkjet ink as substitution for Eco Solvent inks. It is standard 2 Part inkjet process. First you apply with some soft pad B ink on your sticker. Let it dry for couple of hours. Then print on that B component with A inkjet component. Then dray it for some time with IR bulb or IR heater
And this is it.
The result is the same, same quality as UV & outdoor durability as printed on some Eco Solvent Roland or Mimaki. In fact you use the same sticker foils as sold for these two LF printers.

And this process is definitively better result that UV inkjet print technology on glossy material. Because the print is flat and glossy not some build up of UV ink on flat surface. Just take a look at that Epson cartridge. The UV print on the same foil would break off or crack a part on these sharp turns.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

and where are these A and B inks available for purchase ? Are they a commercial product or experimental ?

 

[Adriatix]

Sorry but this is not a commercial product if you meant that in your question.
These inks are in the first place designed specially for propitiate DTG printers for printing on lighters and pencils. R & C cost has been to high and it is covered trough these DTG printers. Built in that price. Or you have to buy complete desktop package printer + cartridges + ink that is verified in this combination on similar DTG print engine. And as shipping cost for that kind of package would cost almost the half of that package price, these other option is very limited. Since these are not new but refurbished printers . . Barbecue after you made the some R&D on some new printer and adjust all links, these new printers are no longer on the market. So you have thrown that R & D in toilet. Therefore it is smarter to collect some old reliable printers and offer the same thing thru refurbished printers. Then this is no longer commercially interesting for competition since they would need to made their own R&D on something that they do not knew if they would be able to collect all links in that chain. And as you knew if one link in that chain fails because of some new printers technical design, you are screwed.