OK - once again. Best EU-ink?

[berserk]

Today - what is the "best EU- ink" - not OEM - which is best. Looking for pigment ink here.

Epson 3880 and it's derivatives like P800 and so on.

Just now going Cone and think they are rather good. You can buy it in France however in the end it's not that very cheaper.

Tried OCP - however I'm not impressed. Magenta destroyed my feeling for it. Not up to Cone-inks.

I'm not after the cheapest - but is there a good ink-set made in EU?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

You may try the Lyson inks
https://www.marrutt.com/inkjet-inks/about-marrutt-inks
or inks by farbenwerk.com in Germany

It's not clear what your criteria are for a 'good' ink, so it's up to you to run your own tests.

 

[berserk]

Have You tested/compared them - gammut etc. Tried Cone before?
Farbenwerk.com inks are encapsulated...interesting. Both above seems to be US-made. Hmm...
Makes me feel they are somewhat related to the Cone manufacturer...

Am I totally wrong? Would You recommend one of them over the other?

And yes - a good ink is not generally too far from OEM.

As I understand, calibrated, You can use P800 inks on 3880.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I'm not sure what you are looking for - what's wrong with US-made inks ? There are only a very few companies in this world actually producing the raw pigments which other companies take to mix up the final inks - solvents - pigments - additives to keep the pigments apart and afloat in suspension or to control the surface tension , the ph value and other physical properties.
And if you expect a third party ink to be close to the OEM ink you won't benefit from any improvements e.g. of the black level being better than the OEM ink. And it's more than the gamut - you need to look to printouts - the gloss, gloss differentials between colors, between lighter and darker colors, it's not just the ink the combination of ink and paper creating a particular impression.
Yes, I tested quite some inks inlcuding Cone and farbenwerk, but there is no clear winner to make just a simple recommendation.

 

[berserk]

In another thread here we are talking about P&H, toll, time, VAT etc when we buy inks in the US for EU buyers. There are some negatives!
Hey, there is nothing wrong with US-ink because of it's made in the US. Not at all. The best third party inks I have used in general are CONE-inks.
However - if I can buy third-party (that is near CONE quality) inks somewhat cheaper in total here in EU - I'm interested.
Harvesting OEM would be ideal - however looking on Ebay - the majority of all offers are in US - almost none in EU.

As OEM inks are the best so far - I have been thinking of setting up a forum - name like "OEM ink hunting and harvesting club of EU" \) or something like that. Perhaps it could be done here in the Printerknowledge forum as a separate subject.

I thank you for your input - and if there is no clear winner between Cone and farbenwerk.com - I'll buy from farbenwerk.com next time and learn how they are in a longer run.
The OCP-inks, for me, just took three days to say - "Never more" and I gave them away to a fellow in the photo club.
(He he - he somewhat liked them. We all have a different acceptance.)

Also - changing to different brands in the long run is no hit - different inks have different outcome depending on what media you are printing on and it takes time to learn how. I want to be away/out photographing and rely on my "good printer outfit/set" at home. You know - to make prints you must be out there with the camera.

If I could afford it would always be OEM inks - but sometimes they cost me more than a good lens. That hurts!

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

We all have a different acceptance.)

That's an important point when discussing which is the 'best' ink. OEM inks are not at all superior in all aspects but they are part of a package you get from the printer supplier - good/very good quality, good performance when used with OEM papers, icm color profiles are available, you are not loosing warranty, no additional hazzles to get inks from here or there etc. And once you go on your own path you need to take care of more variables - ink 'quality' (to your liking), supply issues - Europe vs. U.S. , print quality on other non-OEM papers , profiling etc , the savings you make with 3rd party inks may be used up for these other activities.
I must admit that I don't like OCP pigment inks either , gloss diff and bronzing of the photo black are not so pleasant, but you are right - 'We all have a different acceptance', that's part of the fun you get when going for 3rd party inks, and again - papers play an important roll as well for the perceived quality of a print.
Epson is offering another type of ink with their P400 printers - 'Higloss' implying they give a better look of the gloss than their other inks - Ultrachrome - on glossy papers . I'm cautious here as well recommending on type over the other.
I went through some testing a few years ago of inks offered for the R800/R1800/1900/2000/P400 and only can tell you there is a wide variance of 3rd party inks with their gloss appearance - Cone, farbenwerk, OCP, Inktec, Lyson, and lots of Chinese/Aliexpress inks - and it was funny that a budget Chinese ink turned out to be the 'best' - to my judgement.
And I came to the conclusion that an overprint with a gloss optimizer improves the look of prints with all those inks - regardless of the brand. You get better looking blacks, the gamuts epand slightly for the saturated colors. But the problem is that Epson is not offering that feature with their P600/P800/3880 printers - different to Canon with their P1000 etc series of printers for different formats.
I reported some of the effects with a gloss optimizer/GO here
https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/gloss-optimizer-epson.11174/page-7
This all would apply to prints on glossy paper, or semiglossy, silk type papers, a GO does not
have such an effect on matte papers.

 

[The Hat]

If you care enough about quality prints then you’d only use OEM inks and paper, there is no cheaper substitute because no others can come close to OEM standards, you buy a good Lens to get a great shot so why not use OEM inks.

There is also no such thing as cheap good quality 3rd party inks, and their prices reflect that too, the holy grail is to find a combination of good quality 3rd party inks and matching paper that will achieve the result you seek.

That’s not going to be easy because even your search will end up been costly, US 3rd party inks are good but so are the inks that you can source here in the EU, there are no shortcuts, because satisfaction is never guaranteed if you switch from using OEM inks...

 

[berserk]

@Inkstainedfinger and @Thehat - I agree! (Just one remark to The Hat - I can take more photos and print more prints with third party!)

OEM -Yes!
But that damned lens I could have instead.

....@Inkstainedfingers...he he...do You have more than one lens or just the camera that is built in Your phone? OK - You might be a millionaire. (OK - sorry for that one!)

I'm pretty happy with CONE-inks - they are better than just good however not the BEST!
Now I really do not now any longer because I have used CONE's too long a time and I like what I see.
Also learnt how to use them and with what.

Tempted to test farbenwek.com mentioned above.

That said - I wish I had some fellows here in EU that wanted to harvest and hunt for big Epson cartridges with old time stamps etc.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

There are some ink parameters you can measure - like gamut or black level - and other parameters you just can judge by comparison - this ink looks better on a glossy paper than another ink - by your judgement. And you may make a compromise that OEM inks may be better but not worth the price delta to a particular 3rd party ink - it's your decision. And you are in a similar situation when you evaluate papers of the same type by different suppliers - OEM vs. 3rd party - you compromise on price vs. performance/look.
I have a phone but not a smart phone - without a camera - but 2 Nikons full frame instead so I'm covered to create food for my printers....

 

[berserk]

You are so right!

I have a phone but not a smart phone - without a camera - but 2 Nikons full frame instead so I'm covered to create food for my printers....

Yes all that ink, printers, calibrator etc etc super-duper-things - and now that - yes - I did suspect that there was "money enough" at your place!
That said - wonder why are you fiddling all the time with non-OEM inks?.....hmmm, no I will not write that....