mp830 pgblk not working, purge unit seems ok

[rocketmench]

Hello-

I have a lightly used MP830 that has suddenly stopped printing on the pigment black. After reading quite a few postings on this helpful site I tested the performance of the purge unit by dripping windex onto the left-most pad, and observed that it would drain after the print head was cycled over it. I also removed the little pad, cleaned it to be almost white, and then tested a print operation- it became black, seemingly indicating that the purge unit is actually sucking ink from the cartridges.

I have also tried cleaning my printhead with water, to no avail. I have performed a nozzle print check. Everything seems right, except nothing at all for pgblk.

Would you all recommend I buy a new print head? If so, where (in the US)?

I tried uploading an image of the nozzle check, but it is not being allowed by the website at the moment.

Thanks!
Eric

 

[websnail]

My first port of call would be to get a fresh PGI-5 cartridge and see if perhaps the cartridge itself is the problem... It may have dried out over time and finally not be feeding ink properly now.

 

[stratman]

The following has been cobbled together from various posts.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Barring a malfunctioning purge system, the problem then would narrow to a clogged print head, a partially burned out print head, and/or a malfunctioning logic assay board. The first situation is potentially fixable on your own for low cost while the other two require a significant cash outlay.

Many, many unclogging methods have been discussed on this forum. A search on print head clog would result in dozens of individual techniques. The basics of all are using a fluid other than ink to loosen and flush the dried/congealed ink clog from the print head.

Caveat -- make sure to seal the ink ejection ports of the cartridges when they are outside the print head when you work on the print head to prevent drying of ink. You can use the orange caps the cartridges came with plus a rubber band, or tape (the aluminum HVAC tape is highly regarded but duct tape will due in this temporary situation. Make sure to clean any residue left by the tape.)

One of the most used fluids in this situation is Windex with Ammonia-D, the original formula (not the newer formulations). If you live outside the USA, there is a different cleaning fluid people use - some automotive cleaner. Some people may add water and/or isopropyl alcohol to the Windex. A couple of fluid cocktails are:

Windex with Ammonia-D alone or with isopropyl alcohol

and,

Nifty-Stuff.com Pharmacist's solution recipe:

20 ml isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol)
80 ml distilled water
10 drops of propylene glycol
Ammonia Concentration: to soak printheads externally use 20-25 drops.

Fold a paper towell into a nice thick and even strip and drench it with the cleaning solution and put it under the printhead and let it soak for about 1 hour. After that, execute one cleaning cycle.

25-30 % ammonia: this is concentrated ammonia. If you use household concentration, increase accordingly.

Standard household ammonia in the UK is 9% w/w (weight for weight)

and,

"Art Entlich Formula"

1 part Isopropyl alcohol 90+% (no perfumes, lubricants)
2 parts Original Windex w/ammoniaD (not "no-drip")

1) People have used syringes to force the cleaning fluid through the print head, which may work but also may cause damage if too much pressure is used.

2) Some people place the print head in a bowl with enough fluid to cover the top screens in the print head where the ink cartridge ink exit port sits over (It is the cylindrical portion on the bottom of the cartridge that ink leaves the cartridge by. It is also the location that orange clip you snapped off from the cartridge before installing the new cartridge into the print head.). People then will let the print head sit in the fluid for days. They may gently warm the fluid before putting the print head in it, and rewarm the fluid occasionally.

3) Some people have tried letting tap water from a faucet pour down on the print head.

4) A recent popular method is to soak paper towels in the fluid and sit the print head on top. The paper towels would sit on top of some plate, bowl, margarine lid, or some other containment vessel for the mess that pools. One Nifty-Stuff member (do not recall the name) posted the following recently:

I take the cover of a plastic butter-cup, fold kitchen towel 6 times, and poor some warm purge liquid, recipe from pharmacist with some extra real windex. Push the printhead softly up and down the wet towel in the cover, you can see while you are doing that, the purge liquid coming through where the cart outlet rests on the printhead. There is only 1 mm of liquid on the towel, and I repeat this several times with new warm liquid.

By now you can tell there as many variations as there are people who have tried to de-clog a print head. The most important thing is PATIENCE! It may take several days of continuous cycles of soaking and testing until the clog is resolved. There is no guarantee of success, but people have had success. Hopefully you will as well if the problem is a clog.

If the problem is a burned out print head, then purchasing a new one is the solution. I have found Canon Sales to have excellent prices, the best actually, for older model printers where supply may be an issue at this time. You can search on eBay or elsewhere for pricing and availability. Also, you can call Canon to find out the authorized repair shops in your area and call them on print head pricing.

If the problem is from a malfunctioning logic assay board inside the printer, then you had better be mechanical to take apart and put back the printer (it isn't rocket science but it is overly complicated in steps) or else be prepared to spend well north of $100 at an authorized repair shop. If this is the problem, most people would find a different printer because of the hassle or money factor.

 

[rocketmench]

Thanks very much for the responses. I was afraid it might be more than just a clogged or mis-functioning print-head, ie the logic board you referred to. To answer post #2, I used a new pigment black cartridge in my tests.

If I change the text to be printed to red, for example, it does print. If I select "photo paper" instead of "plain paper", then the document does print black; it must be using the color nozzles instead.

I will continue to use the windex with ammonia-D to see if I can remove any clog.

If there is a problem with the electronic board external to the print-head, then:

What is the part number to be replaced, and where could I get it?
Should I expect some kind of error? I have not seen any error indicated during printing
Is there a test to isolate the problem between a clogged print-head and a defective circuit board.
Could such a problem damage a new print-head?

One last thing- I have been using non-canon ink for the printer, perhaps that suggests something?

Thanks for the help!
Eric

 

[stratman]

If there is a problem with the electronic board external to the print-head, then:

What is the part number to be replaced, and where could I get it?
Should I expect some kind of error? I have not seen any error indicated during printing
Is there a test to isolate the problem between a clogged print-head and a defective circuit board.
Could such a problem damage a new print-head?

One last thing- I have been using non-canon ink for the printer, perhaps that suggests something?

Thanks for the help!
Eric

Based on your premise:

1) Use Google or eBay and search on "print head MP830".

2) There is an error code the LCD/monitor should show if the logic assay is malfunctioning. However, there is no guarantee it will be displayed. Since you have not seen an error code the odds are the print head is the problem.

3) Yes, if you can unclog your print head, that is assuming there is a clog in the first place. From your story, it sounds like a clog with the Pigment Black PGI-5 cartridge/print head portion, but that doesn't mean it is 100% assured.

4) Yes. A print head or logic assay board that is shorting out can damage the other. This is why certain times the forum will not recommend you swap out print heads to prevent damaging another component. I doubt this is your situation from what you've posted so far, but my advice is only as good as the data you have given me to consider.

5) Yes, the ink you use can increase your risk of clogs. What pigment ink are you using?

A workaround to printing black for non-images is to select "Matte" as paper type. This will use the dye-ink CLI-8 cartridges to make black on plain paper documents.

My suggestion is to continue to try to unclog the print head if you want to save money and do not need to print anything critical anytime soon. Otherwise, buy a new print head.

 

[turbguy]

If you pigment purge ceramic pad turns black after cleaning the ceramic to near white and executing a cleaning cycle, you must be getting ink to and through the PGBK printhead nozzles. I would expect SOMETHING to show up on the PGBK nozzle pattern even if it were missing a lot of the pattern.

I suspect the PGBK nozzles just are not "firing" for some electrical/electronic reason. One symptom of this is that the problem occurs suddenly.

You can try a new printhead and keep your fingers crossed. I have "spare" i960 printheads that failed one color suddenly. Repeated cleaning attempts never made a difference. A new printhead solved the problem.

Wayne

 

[rocketmench]

The last set of ink cartridges I purchased was this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001R9ATYK

They are listed as "Canon PGI-5BK CLI-8 15-Pack Compatible Ink Cartridges w/ Chip for Pixma MP500 MP530 MP600 MP800 iP4200 iP4300 iP4500 iP5200 iP5200" from a firm called "compatible" listed on amazon. I don't see any markings on the box that would help identify what type of ink, if there is such a thing.

I would agree, that if the purge pad is receiving ink and turning black that would seem to rule out a clog, plus I've observed ink flowing out of that port on the print head when I run hot water over it. I have a microscope at work; I'll take some pictures and post them. Maybe somebody can take a look and comment if something appears obviously amiss. It would be nice if I could test the electrical function with a multi-meter, which I do have at work also. I was thinking of a basic continuity test of the contacts, for example, but there are so many leads and they don't go to anyplace obviously accessible on the print head.

Eric

 

[turbguy]

While members of this forum have plenty of experience, I doubt that anyone (other than Canon personnel) has direct knowledge of what to expect when testing the printhead contacts with a multimeter.

There's plenty of electronics embedded in the printhead itself. To me, it obvious that some sort of multiplexing is used, as there are far more independently-firing nozzles than there are contacts on the back.

Wayne

 

[turbguy]

Generic carts, such as you referenced, can be fine, or not. "Compatible" to me means they fit mechanically. The properties of the ink, and the ability of the cart to deliver it reliably, will always be an issue in my mind. Most here would agree that only Canon OEM carts should only be used for refilling, and even then problems appears. Heck, problems appears using OEM virgin carts!

Some generic carts may have only dye inks in the PGBK cart, rather than a pigment ink. Dye inks typically work fine in pigment ink applications except for loss of smearing with a highlighter, or loss of water-resistance of the printout.

Wayne

 

[stratman]

The last set of ink cartridges I purchased was this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001R9ATYK

Both the water soluble dye-based inks and the pigment-based inks can clog, however the CLI-8 dye-based inks can be more easily unclogged than the pigment ink PGI-5 because the latter are less soluble in water.

If a particular color stops printing suddenly and completely, as in during a session, the cause may well be a malfunction rather than a clog as turbguy spoke of. If the problem developed in-between sessions of printing, such as overnight, then it could be a clog. That blackened water comes out of the bottom of the print head when you flush it does not accurately diagnose your issue. Take a look at this post from today to see an excellent picture of how forum member marceltho is unclogging his print head. It uses one of the methods listed in my earlier post.

My suggestion is for you to use high quality aftermarket ink that others before you have found time and again as excellent performing ink, not the no-name cartridges you've been buying. It is especially important in your case to use good pigment ink for the PGI-5 cartridge to decrease your risk of another issue, even if your problem currently is a bad print head and not a clog. Depending on your location on the planet the members can give you retailers to buy high quality third part, non-OEM ink.