I've had a re think!

[Donkeyoatay]

A few days ago I wrote my first post to the group asking for confirmation if the carts in the Canon Pixma MP 250 would be suitable for refilling. As I did not get too many replies I started reading through the post here and have spent the past two days doing so. Although I have learned a great deal, I have to say that I have ended up very confused. Just when I think I have found the perfect set up I then read a reason why it is not recommended.

I have learned however, that I must be prepared to spend more money on a printer/scanner/copier. There is a saying here in Spain that "Cheap things cost more". I think that this may well be the case here. My problem when purchasing this kind of item is that, as there are few professional retail outlets anyway near me I have to buy on line. I really feel envious of those of you who can just walk into a well stocked store, and, besides being able to see what is on offer you no doubt have expert advice available. I have a few supermarkets that stock a small selection of printers but no one qualified is available to advise on them.

I am looking to buy (on line) an all-in-one printer (print, copy, scan) that when required, I will be able to refill the carts. The main reason, besides price that I would like to do this is, is being in my mid 70's I like to keep active with everything I do. I have been able to source ink supplies in Germany and the UK and want to make sure that whatever model I end up with will have carts that are refillable without to many problems. I have got terribly confused with the selection of what's available, especially the enormous selection of carts.

I would truly appreciate any suggestions as to what I should consider purchasing with an investment up to uros 150.00 $us 200.00. I would prefer a unit which is functional but not too complicated. I do not need it for any specific purpose other than the occasional color prints, copying documents for my new novel and scanning as required. I would also have to use it in conjunction with my 3 Macs with OSX 10.5.8 & 10.6. I have a slight preference for Canon products as I am the proud owner of two of their cameras.

I look forward to receiving your suggestions and hopefully will be back in business very soon. Many thanks.

Michael.

 

[qwertydude]

Most of the electronics super sotres like Best Buy or Fry's do have wide selections of printers but you're still on your own. The people who work there are just as clueless as anyone else in the rest of the world so it's up to you to find out what info you can to make your purchase. As far as refilling goes, Canon is probably the better one but watch out you don't want to get the newer generation cli-226 cartridge as they're blacked, no doubt to foil refillers. Also they likely have newer encryption so resetters don't work. It took forever for resetters to come out for the cli-221.

 

[stratman]

Donkeyoatay:

Welcome to Nifty-Stuff. I applaud your energy and creativity. I also admit to an amount of appreciation and envy of your life in Spain, a beautiful country with amazing people and culture. And then there is the food. Superb! You only shop for a printer on occassion. One lives life every day.

I don't think you will find a great deal of support for the MP250 in the refilling community because it uses a single cartridge for three colors, making it difficult to refill. The preference is for dedicated single color cartridges, especially ones that are not totally opaque (so that you can see the volume of ink inside the cartridge as you refill or when examining how much remains inbetween refills) and the chip can be reset by a chip resetter to maintain ink level monitoring.

If you were not going to refill, then any of the new Canons may fit your preferences, although the quality of the color output, especially photographs, will be improved with single dedicated color cartridges that include a black dye ink cartridge. The MP250 appears to only have a single black cartridge that is pigment ink used for text, and makes dye ink black used in photographs by mixing all the colors together from the tri-color cartridge. The other reasoning behind preferring single color cartridges is thrift. When one color of a tri-color cartridge (like the MP250) runs out, the entire cartridge must be replaced even though the other two colors in the cartridge are not empty. With dedicated single color cartridges, you only replace or refill the empty color cartridges, which saves money (unless you can also refill the tri-color cartridge, of course). I did see something about refilling the tri-color cartridge found in the MP250 on Google (YouTube?), and there is a link provided by forum member The Hat to a website in Spain that sells a refill kit and a CISS kit, so refilling is being done for that printer's cartridges. See the second post at http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5391 for the link, which is a CISS kit. The link for the refill kit is shown below under "Otros productos..." and is called "Kit de recarga para cartuchos CANON PG-520 BK". Maybe others can advise you further on this issue.

Since you are interested in refilling, one way to approach your search is by cartridge type first, since the ease of refilling is primary and the desire to have ink level monitoring is secondary goals.

Models from several years ago, such as the All-In-One (AIO) Canon MP760 and MP780 used the chipless BCI-3 and BCI-6 ink cartridges. Just refill using either the original top hole method or the new German Durchstich side hole method and you are ready to go. Ink level moniotoring remains functional since no chip on the cartridge to deal with.

Slightly newer models from the past, such as the AIO Canon MP830 (which I own), use the chipped CLI-8 and PGI-5 cartridges. The method of refilling is the same as above, but now you will need a chip resetter in order to maintain ink level monitoring. Chip resetters are relatively inexpensive, shipping being the primary cost variable. If needed, the forum can help you find a suitable chip resetter based on your location. The following link lists the Canon printer models that uses the CLI-8 / PGI-5 cartridges and is not necessarily an endorsement for the particular chip resetter - http://inkjetreset.com/OM-Home-Resetter.html.

More recently, Canon introduced another cartridge type, the PGI-220 and CLI-221 These cartridges use a different type of chip on them which necessitates a different type of chip resetter to reset the chips. An example of this resetter and the printer models with these types of cartridges resettable by this device can be seen at the following link - http://www.amazon.com/Universal-PGI-220PGBK-CLI-221BK-CLI-221GY-Cartridges/dp/B003WEHWW0. Once again, I am not endorsing this resetter, just using the web page as an example. One other thing about the these cartridges is that they are smaller - contain less volume of ink, so you will refill more often.

Commentors on this forum have stated that the PGI-220 and CLI-221 cartridges (North America) are the same as the PGI-520 and CLI-521 cartridges (European and others?) but named differently for different distribution locations in the world - Canon likes to name the same printer differently for different parts of the world. Even though these cartridges may be physically the same, the cartridges may not be interchangeable in either the printer or the chip resetter of different world distribution. I don't know. Maybe others can comment on this topic. To be safe, make sure you purchase the correct corresponding printer, cartridge, and chip resetter combination.

These newer models of Canon printers using PGI-220/CLI-221 or PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges have most of the cartridge blacked out (opaque) with only a partial vertical see-through window on the spongeless side. This is sufficient visualization for refilling purposes. Forum member Pharmacist has an excellent photographic instruction on refilling these types of cartridges - http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4315. This is the same refilling method I use and is quite simple and possible to perform without any ink mess whatsoever.

There has been a report today about Canon now manufacturing the PGI-220/CLI-221 small-windowed cartridges as TOTALLY BLACKED OUT - NO WINDOW AT ALL! See tigerwan's post at http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=37944#p37944. We all await more reports from across the world to see the extent of this move by Canon.

An overview of the various Canon cartridges can be found at http://www.inkbank.com.au/category22_1.htm.

Once you have decided on a cartridge model type, then you can find a model that has the features you want and is in the price range you are comfortable with. Older model cartridge (ClI-8/PGI-5 and BCI-3/BCI-6) printers are becoming increasingly harder to find on the internet and the ones you do locate may be very expensive.

Looking at Canon Spain website I see listed the MP640 and the MP560, both using the PGI-520 pigment ink and the four CYMK separate CLI-521 ink cartridges. (C=Cyan, Y=Yellow, M=Magenta, K=Black) These multifunctional (All-In-One) printers also have duplex printing capability, which is very useful if you want to automatically print on both sides of the paper - saves paper and money! These printer cartridges are easily refillable and there is a chip resetter available.

The MP640 is used by a number of Forum members and well liked. I don't know about the MP560 or the other AIO printers on the web site.

It appears that the newest Canon MG**** models use the latest version of cartridges, PGI-525 / CLI-526 (PGI-225 / CLI-226 North American equivalent), with new chips that have no chip resetter available, and, fully opaque cartridge so that you can no longer easily see ink inside the cartridge, so these are to be avoided if possible for now until people figure out workarounds. Changing their chips is an obvious effort to defeat third party refillers from selling refilled cartridges or copies of OEM Canon cartridges. The blacking out of the entire cartridge seems more aimed at we little people (sarcasm) who refill cartridges on our own and who do not make money from it. A business could care less if they can see ink levels in the cartridge once they figure out the volume needed per refill of a purged and dry cartridge. The rest of us usually go by visualization of ink volume to guage when the cartridge is "filled". Thanks Canon! (sarcasm again) See these new cartridges at translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.druckerchannel.de%2Fartikel.php%3FID%3D2829%26t%3Dnews_neue_canon_smart_chip_patronen_fuer_kommende_tintendrucker&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8. (thanks to jimbo123 from his post at http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=37818#p37818)


One suggestion to keep costs reasonable is to purchase a refurbished printer directly from Canon. I don't know if your Canon Spain website offers this. The Canon USA website does - http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategory_10051_10051_-1_34263.

 

[Donkeyoatay]

Thank you Stratman so much for taking the time to explain everything. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I will have to study it all in depth during the next couple of days. After a couple of quick reads I started looking at what is available here. I found a really good deal on the Canon Pixma MP 550. What about this model? If no good I will consider the MP 560. They both have the same cartridge set up and are very similar. Unfortunately I could find no reference to refurbished models in Madrid. I will however contact them tomorrow to confirm.

If you get time, could you please comment on the MP 550, and thank you once again.

 

[stratman]

You're welcome, Donkeyoatay.

I don't know anything about the MP550 or MP560 beyond what I've read.

They share the nearly all the same mechanisms - Same printhead, print engine, scanner engine, bluetooth, ink cartridges, physical size and layout, etc - and therefore share the same performance specs, but have slightly different extra features, such as, and maybe only, the MP560 has auto duplex printing and the MP550 only does it manually. I prefer the printer automatically printing the other side of the paper without me further interacting with paper and printer. You may not care at all about duplex printing, or be fine doing it manually, so the MP550 would be a good choice if you can buy it for less than the MP560.

Any other differences might be seen in the "specification sheet" PDF's linked at the bottom of the following link - http://www.canon.co.uk/about_us/pre...l-in-ones/pixma_mp550_mp560_press_release.asp. Or, you could look the printers up on Amazon.com, read their spec list and, importantly, read the feedback posted by users of the printers. Oftentimes the flaws of a printer model are exposed in the user comments if the printer has been for sale for a few weeks/months. Of course, you will read about a horror someone experienced but few others remark on, so take the comments with a grain of salt and use the comments to get a general gestalt about the printer.

Maybe some other forum members can comment on their personal experiences with these printer.


*Just to reemphasize tigerwan's information, Canon may be replacing the small-windowed PGI-220/CLI-221 and PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges with an all black, no window cartridge in their current manufacturing run. This would make refilling a little more complicated, but still possible. (there are already suggested ways of refilling that workaround this hinderance) Keep in mind if you buy a printer with these types of cartridges, and you can still get them with the small window, consider purchasing a second complete set of all the cartridges that have the small window while they are still available. Better to have a backup set of cartridges with the window than the all blacked-out cartridge to keep things as easy as possible when refilling. Plus, you can platoon the two sets of cartridges so that one set is always filled and ready to be used. A cartridge is more likely to become empty during a print job rather than afterwards. I have refilled during a print job but it is nice to just be able to drop in a refilled cartridge, finish your printing, and refill the empty at your leisure.

FYI - The ink in a factory OEM new Canon cartridge will last about two years when stored away from direct sunlight and temperature extremes according to a Canon tech I spoke with once, so you could buy a second set and store it for months before using it.

 

[Donkeyoatay]

Once again Stratman thank you for your input. Having studied your two posts I couldn't resist the offer I found here in Malaga for the Canon Pixma MP 550 so I went ahead and purchased one. I have taken note of what you have said about the introduction of all black cartridges and will take your advice about buying a second set with the small window.

One more question and I promise that's it. As far as I know the MP 550 uses cli.521 and pgi 520 cartridges. Do I need a chip resetter. If I do can you recommend a model or are all the same?

I can't tell you how much I have appreciated your help. It is impossible to get any information locally and without your guidance I would have most likely ended up with a printer which was not suitable for my purpose.

Muchsimas gracias y que tengas un buen dia.

Michael.

 

[stratman]

Once again Stratman thank you for your input. Having studied your two posts I couldn't resist the offer I found here in Malaga for the Canon Pixma MP 550 so I went ahead and purchased one. I have taken note of what you have said about the introduction of all black cartridges and will take your advice about buying a second set with the small window.

One more question and I promise that's it. As far as I know the MP 550 uses cli.521 and pgi 520 cartridges. Do I need a chip resetter. If I do can you recommend a model or are all the same?

Congratulations on your new printer. I hope it serves you well.

I do not have any printers that use the PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges, so I can't personally recommend one chip resetter over another. But, I can make general recommendations based upon my experiences.

My chip resetter uses the same button battery found inside your computer to maintain date and time when the power is off. I looked for a chip resetter that had a removable bottom so I could replace the battery when needed. So far the batteries are still good these past ~3 years.

I see that the chip resetters for your cartridge types come either as button battery powered or powered via a usb cable. Maybe others can respond to which is better overall or better for which specific circumstances.

The German Sudhaus RedSetter was one of the the first mass marketed chip resetters and it earned a name for reliability. I bought a no-name blue Chinese knockoff that works (so far!). Some resetters come with warranties and will cost accordingly. Some do not have significant warranties and may be less expensive. Your choice.

As to what you should purchase, one place you might want to begin with is fellow forum member Websnail. He is located in Britain and has a website with all kinds of refilling items, including resetters and high quality refilling ink (Image Specialists). His proximity to you may save you money on shipping and he is a trusted seller and member of this forum. The link to various chip resetters he sells is http://www.octoink.co.uk/categories/Refill-Tools%2fKits/Chip-Resetters/. He seems very responsive to people's questions and has backed up the products he sells. He would be a good source to ask opinion on the resetter types as well as purchase your refilling needs from. You can also search eBay for "Canon Chip Resetter", narrowing down your search by using "PGI-520" or "PGI520" for instance. I'd wager there are businesses, internet and/or brick and mortar, based in Spain that have resetters - use Google to find them or other sources that are reasonable in cost.

It has been my pleasure helping. I may not be able to give you specific information on your printer and cartridges, but there others here that most likely can. I've asked many questions along the way. So, feel free to ask more. That's what this forum is about - learning and sharing.

I look forward to hearing about your refilling experience - let us know how it goes.