Epson C120 - CIS?

[RipR]

Does anyone have a CIS/CFS that really works in the C120?

At least two different kits are advertised, with a dye or pigment ink option, but I have concerns.

1) Based on the U.S. ITC Nov 2007 ruling in favor Epson, selling of such kits (that really work) in U.S. is likely illegal.

2) Examining the images of the cartridges in the two kits, it would appear they are identical, i.e., perhaps from the same source (Skycomn - Taiwan)? Except that the physical shape of the chip contacts from both vendor sources is quite different from the 9-pin chips offered on the Skycomn web pages. Perhaps they are a Skycomn earlier version? The currrent Skycomn chip contacts have far more distinct separation and look very much like the contacts on the actual Epson chips.

3) Can anyone explain exactly how the chip measures the ink level in the cart? Is it connected to a sensor inside the cart or is it receiving a count of nozzle squirts?

4) A lower vertical cartridge profile is necessary for the CFS installation in the C120 so that the tubing and cartridge ingress plugs can clear the full printer head travel path. Can anybody indicate a retail source for these "low rider" cartridges (empty)? Skycomn is a bulk distributor - I don't need thousands.

5) Based on the available evidence from their web site, Skycomn appears to be offering a 9-pin chip that will work on the C120 (or the C110). Anybody tried them out?

6) Nor is there an indication of a working chip resetter for the C120 printer carts (T0691 - BK, T0692 - BL, T0693 - R, & T0693 - Y). Indeed, a specific disclaimer can be found here - (http://www.meritline.com/epson-uni-kit-chip-resetter-v30.html). Future versions hope to be compatible. However, the Taiwanese company (http://www.skycomn.com/) indicates that its SK168-III is compatible. Anybody tried one? Comments?

7) Our Russian brethren at SSC are working on V 5.0 (believe it is in Beta). It is not known if this Rev will address the C120, but some comments on their web forum would seem to indicate the 9-pin chip is tough to crack. Anybody have further definitive info?

BTW - Believe the carts in the C110 are the same as in the C120, just one less black cartridge.

Comments welcome....

Rip

 

[websnail]

Bear in mind that whilst it may be illegal for a company in the USA to trade in Epson CIS kits it's unlikely to stop companies in non-US territories from selling and posting them to you. Case in point CD trays for Canon printers being sent to the US...

I'll be honest I've not been playing with Epsons for some time so I wasn't aware of the C120 and because of the whole 9 pin chip changes I figured I was better off out until the ARC's and resetters were developed.. I seem to remember that resetters may be difficult because of the fuse system which is apparently built in (confirmation anyone?) but I only barely remember reading something about that briefly and couldn't say where or who said it.

I'll be talking to my ink supplier in Holland sometime next week so I'll see if he has any news that might help but in the mean time any additional info' you get on this will be welcome.

 

[mikling]

The real Epson cartridge has a capacitive PHYSICAL ink level detector. The circuit to that is somehow disabled after the cartridge reaches a certain level. Exactly how it is done I am not sure. If one resets the real cartridge before it reaches 75% empty, then it is claimed that they are resettable. However, given that the capacity is low with these tiny cartridges, it's better that you reset before it reaches 60% empty. Doing that with these small capacity cartridge will mean resetting will be frequent and you'll tire of it.

Tonight I learned how the compatible chips work and how Epson was blocking the older chips. It cost me a set of original cartridges but the concepts that Epson is now using is very interesting. More interesting, would be the thinking behind the algorithms that they used.

The 9 pin chip has been cracked. The trick is in hijacking the firmware within the printer to access the chip. That is the real nut. This I suspect is similar to how the Canon chip was cracked piggybacking on the printer firmware.

 

[websnail]

Tonight I learned how the compatible chips work and how Epson was blocking the older chips. It cost me a set of original cartridges but the concepts that Epson is now using is very interesting. More interesting, would be the thinking behind the algorithms that they used.

The 9 pin chip has been cracked. The trick is in hijacking the firmware within the printer to access the chip. That is the real nut. This I suspect is similar to how the Canon chip was cracked piggybacking on the printer firmware.

Going slightly off-topic, but if you've got more intel on that Mikling, I'd be interested in hearing more

 

[mikling]

The newer printers appear to be storing data acquired from Epson OEM cartridges within their memory. The compatibles have to snatch this data in order to function, so without having a set of OEM cartridges in the printer, just prior to installing the compatibles they won't be recognized.

When printers leave Epson service centers the memory is somehow flushed. I suspect they have a utility.

For the older printers like the R1800 etc, this is not implemented.

 

[websnail]

Thanks for that info'..

I spoke to my contact today and got a little that may confuse or add to things.

The printer is apparently blowing the chips on the cartridges and might explain why the originals can't be reset beyond a certain point.

I've had no data on what happens to ARCs or even if there are any for this model yet but the other nugget I heard was that the 9 pin chips are a pain to "reset"... instead ARCs are almost certainly a much better option for any 3rd party consumables.

 

[mikling]

The neutralizing of the chip on the original when it falls below 25% is pretty much fact at this point. Nothing happens on ARCs. Forget refilling the original on the models with 9 pins/contacts.
The chips/ refillables are available for this model with ARC.

 

[websnail]

Hmm... interesting... Sounds about right then...

So, we're seeing something similar to Canons then with CIS kits becoming a real option (when they work) as opposed to refilling..

Strange that I seem to be falling back towards the Epsons again after all this time.

 

[mikling]

I think as long as you want a CIS, a piezo head is always superior for its wider tolerance of ink feed conditions and ruggedness in surviving disasters. You're probably approaching a similar conclusion.

 

[websnail]

I think as long as you want a CIS, a piezo head is always superior for its wider tolerance of ink feed conditions and ruggedness in surviving disasters. You're probably approaching a similar conclusion.

It's somewhat ironic...

There were a couple of key reasons why I shifted from the Epson printers:
- Waste ink tanks used a rigid container (I had to deal with a few spills)
- Canons didn't waste nearly as much ink
- Bulk pigment ink for the Epsons is expensive stuff compared to Canon
- Canon printers have the "auto power" option which really appealed as most of my schools are in blackout and power surge plagued areas
- Epsons were moving towards the new chip design 18 months back
- Getting hold of decent Epson cartridges for CIS kits was something of a nightmare!
- Finally of course all the patent silliness


Now that I have my feet firmly planted in the HP officejet complete with a decent CIS kit that I've laboured long and hard on... I'm looking at the Epsons again and wondering if a return is due, especially when it comes to the waste ink kits which are working out incredibly well.

I think it'll hinge entirely on whether I can find a decent supplier for the cartridges and bonded tubing which shouldn't be impossible but it will be "interesting".