Are Dye inks better than Pigment inks on Gloss Paper ?

[The Hat]

I have just ran another test of pigment inks on glossy paper, and overprinted half of them with I.S. Gloss Optimiser 24 hours later and frankly I can’t see for the life of me why anyone would think that pigment ink doesn’t go with gloss paper.

Even without the GO on them they still are very punchy to look at, but with the gloss coating they are that much (80% better), yes there is still some bronzing and colour differential but when view from the front as most prints should be it’s unnoticeable.

There is no getting away from the fact that dye inks do a far better looking job of a print than pigment inks could ever do, but give it 1 to 2 years on view and then say that dye inks are still better, I think not..

 

[martin0reg]

...frankly I can’t see for the life of me why anyone would think that pigment ink doesn’t go with gloss paper...

Question is: with which particular gloss paper?

After printing the first samples and tests with epson OEM K3 ink in a 3880 I got some really nice glossy prints - but only on my higher quality coated paper like tecco or aldi/sihl.
If I print on cheap sorts of glossy paper (like labelheaven or other cast coated papers) the print comes out really dull - while the same paper has decent gloss if printed with dye.
So the best pigment ink is able to shine ... with well selected glossy papers. While the most sorts of dye seem to go with the most sorts of papers including cheap cast coated.

And if you like matte papers too it seems to be essential to use the matte black IMHO, while dye prints deep blacks on both glossy and matte papers with one type of ink.
So I think the only drawback of dye really is longevity...

PS: but there are dyes and dyes:
http://www.printerknowledge.com/thr...uting-magenta-and-cyan.7545/page-9#post-81786

 

[palombian]

Gloss differences etc with pigment ink was my biggest disappointment last year (my first as refiller).

I spent considerable time experimenting with papers and inks and agree with The Hat that it is possible to make very punchy prints with pigment ink on selected papers.
Gloss difference is higher with 3th party ink (the IS PGI-9 red oh my dear ), but depends also a lot from the paper.
My best results are still on Ilford Smooth Pearl (not a real glossy but same punch/gamut) - found a large stock, never will have to buy paper for the rest of my life.

But my daily photos are printed with dye ink. As far as I can observe 1-2 years seems reasonable.

PS:
I've found the Tecco Smooth Pearl version not as good (for gloss difference) as the original Ilford.
Very pleased with ALDI/Sihl 300g glossy, not far away from Canon Platinum Pro.

 

[TR41]

"give it 1 to 2 years on view" . Is it as bad ? With Claria ink ?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

o.k., as long as you don't specify, or even describe the viewing environment those numbers are arbitrary, you can have some UV in the light from fluorescent lamps, even halogene lamps, humidity counts and this and that. With pigment inks you are on the safe side in regards to longevity, with dye inks/refill you can get very poor inks, so so inks, very well performing Canon or Epson or HP OEM inks, or you milk other dye ink cartridges such as those from Fujifilm for the drylab photo printers or Epson Surelab photo printers. Here you would do refill with OEM ink, more cost effective than the original cartridges for your printer model. There is more actual test information on dye ink fading in the link by martin0reg

 

[The Hat]

I work extensively with dye inks and when the need arises I switch to using pigment inks which I now find is getting more and more common every day, dye ink works just fine in most situations but there are exceptions.

Most people prefer the look of dye ink but want their printed product to last a bit longer than they do due to the dye inks inability to survive in a moisture filled environment.

In and out of peoples pockets, sitting on the dash of a car, displayed openly under glass, shops where food is displayed, and then there is our lovely rain to contend with, and of course completely out for the boating adventurer.

I've never had a problem with dye ink fading, it is just an acceptable thing that happens and on those occasions that it does then I just reprint what ever it was that faded, it is a great excuse to Print, Print, Print..

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I've never had a problem with dye ink fading, it is just an acceptable thing that happens and on those occasions that it does then I just reprint what ever it was that faded,

I have had severe fading that I never anticipated. And it's one thing if you have just an occasional picture on the wall, but often it's not at all practical to reprint. Just what do you do when it's all those CD covers on the rack, or that art print you sold that they want to leave in their will, or baby pictures, or someone's wedding pictures? Do you even know or think how all your printing will be used?

Unless you are writing secret messages in disappearing ink, you absolutely must give thought to longevity. And then there's a practical matter. To be sure, some printing is more critical than other. Do you keep one printer just for substandard printing? I know that's what I do, but even the substandard one (dye-pigment combo) has had some effort to ensure relatively stable ink.

 

[Smile]

I have just ran another test of pigment inks on glossy paper, and overprinted half of them with I.S. Gloss Optimiser 24 hours later and frankly I can’t see for the life of me why anyone would think that pigment ink doesn’t go with gloss paper.

Even without the GO on them they still are very punchy to look at, but with the gloss coating they are that much (80% better), yes there is still some bronzing and colour differential but when view from the front as most prints should be it’s unnoticeable.

There is no getting away from the fact that dye inks do a far better looking job of a print than pigment inks could ever do, but give it 1 to 2 years on view and then say that dye inks are still better, I think not..

I agree pigments are better if you print on anything but true glossy paper like PT-101. Any glossy paper is a killer for pigment inks, but this paper is best in glossiness I have seen.

When pigment inks will work like DYE inks, and you will not need 6 or 10 color printer to print the same as el cheapo 4 color DYE printer, when it will have even performance on Glossy and matte paper with single black cart. Then I will surely upgrade an never recommend DYE for anyone.

 

[TR41]

PT-101 is amazing but does not go bigger than A3+ size. I tried it with dye, it is gorgeous. I would be curious to see with pigment how it goes, if u say it is killer with pigment, it must be Terminator with dye

 

[Smile]

Yes I wonder what the damn thing Canon thinks too, why they offer the Luster paper in rolls and do not offer Platinum for some reason

https://www.usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/pdf/supplies/MDS-Premium-RC-Photo-Luster-255gsm.pdf