Are Dye inks better than Pigment inks on Gloss Paper ?

[TR41]

Because it is optimized for small size dye inkjet printer like the pro-100. Luster goes well with pigment so it makes sens if they offer it in roll.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/printer/PT101_Guide.pdf

 

[Smile]

Because it is optimized for small size dye inkjet printer like the pro-100. Luster goes well with pigment so it makes sens if they offer it in roll.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/printer/PT101_Guide.pdf

Luster is an RC paper like the PT-101. Since when Resin coated paper encapsulates pigments? Pigment float remember they do not like DYE ink absorbed and sealed by RC layer.

 

[TR41]

yeah luster is rc paper too. but pigment works actually better than dye on luster papers. Luster is a rc paper but it is not so deep.

 

[3dogs]

Reading this thread puts me in mind of watching an orchestra rehearsal where the players have never worked together and each have brought a different piece to play. @Smile said in a post many moons ago that the nature of these posts is on the surface a dialogue between us. It is also a body of work that will be referred to by others.

I have difficulty finding the hope of commonality in the debate, we are variously using different printers, papers and inks in very different conditions and climates. Individually members are doing great things with testing and publishing outcomes for us.

BUT

Not all pigment inks are equal, and nor are dye inks the same, crikey! they even vary by batch. Likewise papers have the opportunity to vary a great deal, and I have great concerns outside the BIG brands, I do not consider either Canon or Epson papers to be big brands (I believe they are opportunistic) that the variability between Countries and global Regions has the potential to throw findings out of the window.
So the real question becomes 'Can we actually arrive at a consensus, or are we (at best) only able to cronicle our own individual results?'

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

you are right - variables are many, and we don't really measure anything, we just compare, the same (whatever) ink on different papers, different inks on the same paper, and we judge the outcome after some time. We don't control, measure the environment, don't measure any total UV dose etc, we are not able to repeat the environmental conditions for another test, so for any test I use some ink/paper combination I used before as a reference, and at the end I can say whether it looks better or not. We are not measuring saturation changes, we don't make tables, we don't plot results against time etc. And some of such references are an OEM ink of which I would assume that they wouldn't change much from cartridge to cartridge or region to region. Several of the people testing are either using OEM paper, or some other popular paper (in Europe, to name the Sihl/Aldi offer as an example for a glossy paper with a good price/performance ratio). And if I'm really interested in a particular result published I could try to repeat such test (under my conditions). I did that with the Fujilab drylab dye ink which came into discussion months ago in a German forum with a similar subject. And the outcome is that this ink convinces me as well, and is a magnitude ahead of other refill inks in terms of environmental UV/ozon/humidity stability on my balcony. There is a common recognition as well that OEM inks are ahead of other refill inks in this respect. And you are right, it is not easier with pigment inks, it's very much a matter of a paper/ink combination, and the viewer's sensitivity to particular effects like bronzing, gloss diff. etc. And here again, the hint to an InkTec K3 pigment ink let me order them , and I my judgement is similar that the gloss of the photo black is not as I like it. My original Ultrachrome inks are running out, I need a substitute, I'm testing around and I have tested so far about 6 different inks, and InkTec K3 is not my favorite. So I think we are coming to some conclusions at the end.

 

[martin0reg]

BTW: Luster is a sort of surface, not a sort of coat IMHO. I've got glossy paper which is RC and glossy paper which is CC (cast coated), the first is better for both inks, the other is cheaper and goes well only with dye. Besides the only paper which seals the dye was "swellable" paper, but it needs long time for drying and is hard to find

...and I have tested so far about 6 different inks, and InkTec K3 is not my favorite. So I think we are coming to some conclusions at the end.

Which sorts of K3 compatibles you are testing and how is your personal current rating? Although this maybe subjective and should be read with caution..!

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

oh well, about everything tested and posted is subjective, it is not measured against particular standards. Testing dye inks for longevity , UV/ozone resistantance was/is one thing, and I have some other samples coming via Aliexpress, I still try to find a Chinese 'UV resistant' ink with a black ink better performing than the previous samples, and with a lower price than the Fujifilm inks. That will probably take another 4-6 weeks until those orders arrive, and some testing time. But that may be futile, Chinese dye inks Epson Surelab compatible are quoted more expensive than typical Chinese pigment inks for Epson printers, I guess the cost of the special dye material is driving up the prices.

When it comes to pigment inks, I was test printing with
an ink Fotorite for the R1900 by Cityinkexpress, I'm concentrating on inks as a replaceable for the Ultrachrome Higloss for the R1900/2000 which should be tuned for prints on glossy paper. This
Fotorite ink performs quite well, is pretty low cost, but the black does not have a good black level, it is a kind of brownish.
I used an OCP ink set for the R1900, the black is darker, but glossier than the other colors, and the black
gets an aluminum like shine in reflecting light, this creates edges in foto printouts when turning them against light.
I tested an ink by farbenwerk, Pigmera 1900, but not available anymore, I have some qty left. That is
at this point the best compromise for me, gloss, black level etc
I tested the InkTec K3 pigment ink set, the colors appear to be o.k., the black is glossier than the colors,
and get pretty metallic in reflecting light, visible on foto prints.
I tested an ink from a German Ebay dealer, an ink set for the R1900, completely useless, all colors are matte on a glossy paper, that looks really funny, and you get the pigments onto your fingers . That ink got disposed off.......
I have tested an ink set from farbenwerk offered for the 3880, the AQ880 inks, they give a good look on glossy papers, the black is o.k., but these inks are somewhat more expensive than the other inks in the test.
I have some ink left , original Ultrachrome, overall quite good, good black, but a more visible bronzing of the black and cyan on some papers than the other inks above.
I printed color bars and test fotos on Sihl Glossy, Labelheaven (glossy), and 2 sorts of silk off the roll - paper for the Pro 7600.

Every combination looks different, some slightly different, some with even surprising differences, such as bronzing , e.g. one ink may show the effect barely or not at all on all tested papers, or another ink just shows bronzing on one paper, and another ink on another paper. I have sorted out those black inks which are not dark enough. Those will be printed away sooner or later in the L300.
For the next test I'll mix all the color inks together in the volume ratio as I have them available, and will print some test prictures together with one or the other black ink . So there is not one ink really standing out and looking much better on all papers than other inks - it is much more a compromise.
As soon as you start judging printouts technically like that, you are not innocent anymore like other persons looking to the images. Most of them don't even recognize the effects and variations I'm observing, they rather complain if something is wrong with the colors, the skin, the eyes, the fabric etc

 

[Smile]

Thank for your input @Ink stained Fingers