Which refillable cartridges for epson?

[martin0reg]

I had two sorts of refillable cartridges in my epson printers (R800 R285)

The first ones had a little round compartment in the cartridge which was difficult to fill. Ink flow was not good.
Perhaps this type of cartridges has to be filled in vacuum with special device?

The other ones had not such a compartment and were easier to fill. Ink flow was good.

Here are pictures from both types (new):

On ebay often you can not identify the type:
http://cgi.ebay.de/6-COMPATIBLE-REF..._CamerasPhoto_Printing_PrinterInkCatridges_JN
http://cgi.ebay.de/EPSON-P50-PX810FW-R285-PX650-refillable-ink-cartridge-/110569103167?pt=BI_Toner

Any experiences, problems, recommandatiions for refillable cartridges (with links) ?

 

[strobemonkey]

I use these ones:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170457655081&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The cartridge is similar to your picture on the right. Thery have V6 auto reset chips which I originally bought for my rx685, now I'm using them on my P50 with no problem.

I am currently using jet tec inks but when they finish, I'll try octoink's inks.

 

[qwertydude]

I recently got a CIS. It really makes using an epson worthwhile, no messy refilling. When a cartridge "runs out" I just press a button and they magically reset without having to remove the cartridge. And when I do run out, all I have to do is drain the cart back into the reservoir, pour new ink and re-prime (so the colors mix evenly to make a consistent profile) and all is well.

 

[mikling]

I threw away about 100 of the ones that are reported to have good ink flow because they are tricky to use for the average user. Epson printheads benefit from a small negative pressure from the cartridge just like the OEM ones. The ones on the right that has a large screen is supposed to generate this after it has been used sufficiently and ONLY if the top plug seals two holes concurrently. If the plug does not seal the interior hole properly, you are going to have dribbling of ink out of the printhead when it is parked. The probability of users not resealing the holes properly is high. I tried selling these and sure enough a high amount of problems surfaced. The so called problematic one ( on the left) is only so because the user does not understand that this particular style needs to be properly primed and once this is accomplished, it works properly and consistently. The one that is supposed to work is called a self priming design but it is tricky and over the long term as the plugs lose shape and become less pliable, problems will surface. Like I said I threw away over 100 of these at my own expense because they are a nice idea IF everything goes well.

P.S. You are not to prime cartridges by executing multiple head cleans. That is a really really bad idea on many counts. This does not prime the cartridge sufficiently to provide a large reservoir of ink to the printhead.

Sometimes, misunderstanding of how things should work causes wrong conclusions. This is an example.

 

[strobemonkey]

mikling and/or others, do you have any experience with this type of ciss cartridge:

large size:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4901235057_2faeba38c5_b.jpg

 

[websnail]

The ones on the right that has a large screen is supposed to generate this after it has been used sufficiently and ONLY if the top plug seals two holes concurrently.

Just to check my understanding on this... Did you mean that the plug that sits closest to the chip must be pushed all the way home and seal not only the surface hole but the one below.

I'm guessing it is as this would tie with the internal hole air leakage. Annoyingly these plugs and the cartridge design do lend themselves towards that happening. Not really understood the split when a single block in that area would solve the problem nicely.

 

[mikling]

On a CISS, the tank system is a factor in retaining the negative pressure. Those low profilers also work in conjunction with the tank.

Yeah those cartridges are annoying and users don't like to be informed that they might have been sloppy in not reseating the plugs completely and I mean completely. Similarly, despite instructions to ensure that plugs on cartridges are to be reseated flush etc. I always get the odd enquiry that plugs have gone missing and they might have grown legs and jumped out!!!!

 

[Lothman]

The one that is supposed to work is called a self priming design but it is tricky and over the long term as the plugs lose shape and become less pliable, problems will surface. Like I said I threw away over 100 of these at my own expense because they are a nice idea IF everything goes well.

Hmh if those cartridges are so bad why do you still sell them on your ebay shop?
http://cgi.ebay.de/Spongeless-Refil.../140405163582?pt=BI_Toner&hash=item20b0ccc63e

Earning my living with sealing techology I have to say that the plugs have are poor design, they should be conic not cylindrical and should have a sealing edge instead of trying o compress a uncompressible rubber. If unlubricated the friction is so high that you cannot get them down the hole in the cartridge.

Could I create the small vaccuum after a refill by closing the ink whole, open the venting hole, insert a syringe and pull out some air?

Regards
Lothman

 

[mikling]

I do not sell the ones that are self priming. Like I said those went into the garbage dump. I am wounded.

If you look at the pictures and read carefully you will see that they are not identical.

These are the ones that I am selling for the R2400 as per the listing. They are obviously very different to anyone taking the time to read and understand.

You are mistaking the differences by the outline. One style of cartridge is for the R2400,R1800,R200 etc. An older style where the chips are to the rear. The newer style cartridges have chips on the front or opposite side.

This is the insides of an original (older style) Epson cartridge. It is cleverly designed to maintain a constant negative pressure inside the cartridge from full to empty. The air vent is filtered from the opposite side and it also has an internal poppet valve. The key thing to note is the attempt of proper refillables to mimic the negative pressure and regulator internally at the TOP and not at the BOTTOM like the cartridges that I have dumped. On this OEM model there are backdoor routes to refill them. The following style closes those backdoors.

This is the newer style (Current 2010) cartridges. Design has been simplified and cost reduced. Notice the electronic liquid sensor towards the bottom where the ink is picked up and the lack of self sealing poppet valves. This cartridge is empty. There is ink left inside the cartridge to ensure that the printhead remains PRIMED at all times. Again notice the round regulator mechanism to control ink flow. This is a very clever design.

Epson's designs are patented for obvious reasons and quite a bit of clever engineering goes into each one. Great design work. The good aftermarket refillables are not to the standard of the original but they perform within the window allowed by the printhead. Epson's design is close to perfect given that they must attempt to stop aftermarket refilling with double walls and pathways that discourage refilling.

 

[martin0reg]

Thank you for clearing this up again, mikling.
As I said in the first posting, I once had problems with the ink flow of refill cartridges (not from your shop), it was a set for R800 with round regulator chambers. Probably I did not prime them right, the round chamber was hard to fill. And the filling of this chamber without air seems to be important. Otherwise air could get into the printhead...
You are offering these type of carts prefilled in a vacuum chamber. With a good description (which I didn't had at that time) priming should be practicable for the normal user.

Later I bought a set for R285, they were "self priming" with the square screen at the outlet. Priming was easy and ink flow was good. Lately refilling of the black one is getting a little harder...
You say that the internal regulator should be at the top not at the bottom, to keep the negative pressure from full to empty. That sounds reasonable and I will try this type in future - hoping this time the priming will work out right.

By the way, sealing of the rubber plugs was no problem with both types.